HSE Hire Ban removal?

Purple said:
I work in an organisation of 80 people. When one of us goes on leave (of any sort) we are not replaced. We just work harder/longer to get the work done.
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I simpley dont believe that in an organisation where key people are needed in key positions they are not replaced? That does not make any business sence. Lets take a hospital for example, there is 3 or four pediatriticians 2 go on maternity leave. Are you seriously telling me, and now be honest and fair here, that the other two should take up the slack????????? Or perhaps you want a dentist to come in from another department to give them a dig out (ouch). Please.

When will people in the private sector realise that their is essentially something very different about working with people in a caring profession than working in the private sector where one may make widgets etc.
 
The ban has been lifted but strict recruitment controls are in place so a lot of mat leaves are not being replaced, summer leave.

Junior doctors are recruited every 6 months so what's been advertised is replacements for those moving on to other jobs.

Not all areas get summer leave, in my own dept of 6 we cross cover. However, in a reception area that must be manned from 8am to 8pm its not possible for the existing staff to pick up all the vacant shifts for 10 months which is how a long a mat last these days.
 
television said:
perhaps you want a dentist to come in from another department to give them a dig out (ouch). Please.

When will people in the private sector realise that their is essentially something very different about working with people in a caring profession than working in the private sector where one may make widgets etc.
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The first statement is ridiculous. Why cant the other two take up the thirds workload? The fact is public sector work ethos does not allow for the same produtivity as private sector and that is why health care is headed for privitisation. I would be in the same situation as Purple mentioned. For example, If a colleague is I could be called on to take up their work as well as carry on with my own. If this was done in a hospital for example, there would be uproar. Nurses forced to work an extra hour few hours etc. If I have to work extra hours i get on with it, like many many others in private sector. It is civil service in-efficiency at its best with the HSE in that regard.

When will people within the caring proffession stop spinning the old line about the more staff available the better health system will get. The HSE in-efficiency had to stop and a hard line a was taken.
 
Its a simple mathamatical equation. In 8 hours in the day a doctor can see lets say 32 patients. there are 4 doctors seeing 128 patients a day. take away 2 doctors that means 2 doctors are left to see 128 patients. This mean that patients get less time worse service etc. On the one hand you can argue doctors are being more "efficent" on the other patients loose.
 
television said:
Its a simple mathamatical equation. In 8 hours in the day a doctor can see lets say 32 patients. there are 4 doctors seeing 128 patients a day. take away 2 doctors that means 2 doctors are left to see 128 patients. This mean that patients get less time worse service etc. On the one hand you can argue doctors are being more "efficent" on the other patients loose.
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Or a sensible solution can be adapted. Doctors work longer hours a practical scheduling system is enforced. Your mathematics are convenient for your argument.
 
Working time directive comes into play. And as well as that most junior doctors are up to thier eyeballs in it today. no amount of shifting of schedules will help if there is too little doctors etc to see patients.
 
your solution is to exploit people make then wrk 60-70 hours a week. Sorry just because there is complete mugs in the private sector who allows themselves to be eploited than that does not mean that this has to be the case in the public sector.

And the working time directive applies to the private sector as far as i know.
 
television said:
your solution is to exploit people make then wrk 60-70 hours a week. Sorry just because there is complete mugs in the private sector who allows themselves to be eploited than that does not mean that this has to be the case in the public sector.
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Exploitation or a hard work ethos knowing that putting in the work will provide rewards down the line?

Plenty of people work 60-70 hours a week. If public sector work practices been brought in line wth private sector eficiency and costs would be soon brought in to line. As soon as public sector has to be taken task on continuos overspending its a problem. Its a hard line that is unfortunate for those on the front lines but after years of in-efficiency and overspending it had to be done. What do you expect; keep going with more promises that spending will be reduced gradually only to find ourselves another ten years down the line staring at the same red numbers?
 
bullbars said:
Exploitation or a hard work ethos knowing that putting in the work will provide rewards down the line?

Plenty of people work 60-70 hours a week. If public sector work practices been brought in line wth private sector eficiency and costs would be soon brought in to line. As soon as public sector has to be taken task on continuos overspending its a problem. Its a hard line that is unfortunate for those on the front lines but after years of in-efficiency and overspending it had to be done. What do you expect; keep going with more promises that spending will be reduced gradually only to find ourselves another ten years down the line staring at the same red numbers?
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Exploitation, as far as I am concerned unless there are getting very well paid for it.

Its not those on the font line who are loosing out. Its patients.
 
television said:
Its not those on the font line who are loosing out. Its patients.
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I'd take the protestations of front line staff seriously if nurses were not looking for an even shorter working week, if the standard working week was 39 hours, if annual leave was set at the statutory minimum and absentee levels in the HSE were not the highest in the country.

When our receptionist is out one the phones are diverted to the main office and whomever is free at that moment picks up the phone. We put a notice on the door asking people to ring the bell for access.
All groups coordinate and plan so that holidays are covered by existing staff.
That's what happens in a business that competes openly with the rest of the world.
 
television said:
Exploitation, as far as I am concerned unless there are getting very well paid for it.
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More than likely are getting well paid. Hard work = Reward. Your salary is a reward for the value of the work you have done. Its not an entitlement for filling a role. Again another problem within public sector V private sector.

television said:
Its not those on the font line who are loosing out. Its patients.
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That old chestnut. They dont seem too concerned when threatening industrial action. Increase in work hours and efficiency are more beneficial to patients than the current situation. There is no-one to blame but the HSE themselves.
 
Purple said:
I'd take the protestations of front line staff seriously if nurses were not looking for an even shorter working week, if the standard working week was 39 hours, if annual leave was set at the statutory minimum and absentee levels in the HSE were not the highest in the country.
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Fair point, although Nurses were left pretty sickened after benchmarking (pun intended)

Purple said:
When our receptionist is out one the phones are diverted to the main office and whomever is free at that moment picks up the phone. We put a notice on the door asking people to ring the bell for access.

All groups coordinate and plan so that holidays are covered by existing staff.
That's what happens in a business that competes openly with the rest of the world.
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Ok so if a Nurse is out get a clearner in to see patients. health care is a complicated activity, it requires an approach that is not easly broken down into private sector soundbites about productivity/efficency.
What happens in private industry is not necessarly best for good health care.
 
Purple said:
I'd take the protestations of front line staff seriously if nurses were not looking for an even shorter working week, if the standard working week was 39 hours, if annual leave was set at the statutory minimum and absentee levels in the HSE were not the highest in the country.

When our receptionist is out one the phones are diverted to the main office and whomever is free at that moment picks up the phone. We put a notice on the door asking people to ring the bell for access.
All groups coordinate and plan so that holidays are covered by existing staff.
That's what happens in a business that competes openly with the rest of the world.
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Well made points as usual. However, putting a notice or diverting the phone at the main reception of a hospital or a busy OPD clinic is not an option.
 
it requires an approach that is not easly broken down into private sector soundbites about productivity/efficency.
What happens in private industry is not necessarly best for good health care.
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They've had long enough to adopt change but didn't so this is the result. It is of course about productivity/efficency or lack there-of. What would you suggest keep pumping money into a severly leaking vessel?
 
bullbars said:
More than likely are getting well paid. Hard work = Reward. Your salary is a reward for the value of the work you have done. Its not an entitlement for filling a role. Again another problem within public sector V private sector.
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Dont aggree I know plenty of people in the private sector who work hard for 40 hours and then are expectted to put in 10 or more hours for nothing.


bullbars said:
That old chestnut. They dont seem too concerned when threatening industrial action. Increase in work hours and efficiency are more beneficial to patients than the current situation. There is no-one to blame but the HSE themselves.
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Recent industrial action by IMPACT was about staff cut backs. not for the increase in pay. It is because most of these union members are seeing sever cuts on the ground that is effecting patients.

The vast majority of people who are empolyed as health professionals do so because of a sence of vocation. they get into health care because they care about people, about making sick people better, because they want to give back to society, its not for money or to get cosy state jobs.

There is exteme flustration that there is cuts to front line services. And by the way the last industriakl action undertaken by IMPACT was done during lunch time.
 
becky said:
Well made points as usual. However, putting a notice or diverting the phone at the main reception of a hospital or a busy OPD clinic is not an option.
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Its an example of how private sector workers increase their work loads in times of need not down tools and make demands.
 
Let me give you an example of how talk about productivity and efficency can be seen as a complete nonsence. Productivity for a heart surgen is to do as many heart transplants and for a orthopedic surgen do as many hips as possible. However in hospitals all over the country these people are being punished by the HSC for doing to many proceedures because they are going over budget. A friend of mine tells me that a surgon he knows has been put onleave for 2 months because the HSC has refused to spend any more money on operations for the next number of months in one particular area. NOw thats crazy. And its not because of doctors or nurses. And on the ground they are seeing this and the flustration is huge.

And the complete unbelievablity of this it that the people who are forced to wait for there proceedure are sent on the treatment purchases fund where it costs even more that it otherwise would to treat them in the first place. You tell me the sence in that????
 
bullbars said:
Its an example of how private sector workers increase their work loads in times of need not down tools and make demands.
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Yes I know but in lots of areas in the HSE, leave is planned, people cross cover, divert phones and work longer than contracted hours. I'm making the point that some solutions can't apply to the all areas in the HSE. The hosp reception open 12 hours a days 7 days a week need a certain amount of staff to cover all the shifts and I think expecting people to work extra for no money money all the time is a weak one no matter how much sense it makes.

I work an average of 45 hours a week and do another 3 or 4 hrs at home. My contracted hours are 33 and no I don't look for extra money I'm happy with my salary and holidays (31 btw) but I do work hard for it.
 
Why the defensive attitude that talk of efficiencies only apply to front line staff?
I have repeated many times here that the first think that is needed is good management.
 
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