Gay Marraige For or Against

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Vanilla said:
You say that same sex couples were never intended to have children as they don't have the physical attibutes to do so, but that is clearly wrong. They do. Gay men have sperm, gay women havewombs.
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Vanilla, good morning.Hope you've had your espresso/cappucino. Re above ...... AFAIK gay men don't have wombs or gay women dangly bits. Nature did have a go but hermaphrodites obviously did not cut the mustard as nature intended. Now if a gay man got to grips with a gay woman and impregnated her, that's fine. But I'd look for an alternative definition for the word 'gay'. :)
 
I think kids would be blessed to have two parents, be they male and female, two females or two males - I'm sure they would be equally loved the same.

So if kids are gonna get bullied in school because they have two moms or two dads, the gay couple shouldn't be allowed to adopt?

What about people of interracial relationships, say one parent is black and one white. Do you think that kid is gonna be equally bullied? I would think so. Race is another thing frowned upon it would seem. So perhaps there should be a ban on mixed races coming together and having kids or adopting?

Not wanting to go down the religion route but I have to make a point. If one parent is of one religion, and the other of another, will that kid be equally as bullied as the two above? So perhaps different religions shouldnt come together either. I mean, people have died for two families of different religions coming together, right on our doorstep.

So, ban on gay people having kids. Where is the ban on race and religion too?

It doesn't matter about 'plumbing', or who has what. Surely someones love for another can't be helped, the way you have falled for your partner of choice, be them a man or a woman.
 
I have to admit, I'm quite surprised by the opinions put forward by some of the posters here. It seems to be a case of "I don't mind the gays, but no way can they have a family, the durty feckers. Down with that sort of thing!"

Sad really that seemingly intelligent people still carry a prejudice (and be under no illusions, that's exactly what it is) against homosexuals.

I think the double standards as highlighted by Smashbox in her last post is very important. No-one would condone preventing mixed-race or mixed-religion couples the right to adoption. Yet not so very long ago, they were not allowed to marry.

It shows an archaic p.o.v. still permeates Irish society on issues such as this.
I remember years ago being at mass and the priest venting from the pulpit (again) about the 'evils' of our society. Abortion, Contraception, Divorce, Homosexuality, extra-marital sex etc... I was secretly laughing to myself that this man was so out of touch with modern day life. "No-one can seriously sign up to this rubbish" I thought. Seems I was (and still am) wrong....sadly !

Conversations like this will be looked upon with a mixture of bewilderment and disdain by future generations.
 
I don't have anything to add to my previous posts and to the excellent posts above by jaybird, smashbox and pique318.
 
To break it down further...assuming gay people could adopt, how do you think people would view 2 gay women adopting a child vs 2 gay men? Personally, I think society in general would find it easier to accept 2 gay women adopting.

I'm in favour of gays being able to adopt by the way, assuming they are married and meet the already strict adoption guidelines.
 
Pique318 said:
I have to admit, I'm quite surprised by the opinions put forward by some of the posters here. It seems to be a case of "I don't mind the gays, but no way can they have a family, the durty feckers. Down with that sort of thing!"

Sad really that seemingly intelligent people still carry a prejudice (and be under no illusions, that's exactly what it is) against homosexuals.

I think the double standards as highlighted by Smashbox in her last post is very important. No-one would condone preventing mixed-race or mixed-religion couples the right to adoption. Yet not so very long ago, they were not allowed to marry.

It shows an archaic p.o.v. still permeates Irish society on issues such as this.
I remember years ago being at mass and the priest venting from the pulpit (again) about the 'evils' of our society. Abortion, Contraception, Divorce, Homosexuality, extra-marital sex etc... I was secretly laughing to myself that this man was so out of touch with modern day life. "No-one can seriously sign up to this rubbish" I thought. Seems I was (and still am) wrong....sadly !

Conversations like this will be looked upon with a mixture of bewilderment and disdain by future generations.
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I am one of those that is ok with gay marriage but not ok with them adopting children.

Currently this is probably based on the fact that I have imagined what it would be like for a child to head off to school if they had two dads/two mums, and the amount of abuse they would get for it. Many would suffer terribly because of it. OK so it would be wrong for it to happen, but it probably would happen.

Now if 50 years in the future it was a very common thing then it might be more widely accepted by people like myself (in 50yrs I'll not have to worry about it!) and by society in general, but in this current age I simply can't accept it. They can be married but they have to accept that if they have no ability to conceive themselves then they will have to live without children.
 
Pique318 said:
I have to admit, I'm quite surprised by the opinions put forward by some of the posters here. It seems to be a case of "I don't mind the gays, but no way can they have a family, the durty feckers. Down with that sort of thing!"

Sad really that seemingly intelligent people still carry a prejudice (and be under no illusions, that's exactly what it is) against homosexuals.

I think the double standards as highlighted by Smashbox in her last post is very important. No-one would condone preventing mixed-race or mixed-religion couples the right to adoption. Yet not so very long ago, they were not allowed to marry.

It shows an archaic p.o.v. still permeates Irish society on issues such as this.
I remember years ago being at mass and the priest venting from the pulpit (again) about the 'evils' of our society. Abortion, Contraception, Divorce, Homosexuality, extra-marital sex etc... I was secretly laughing to myself that this man was so out of touch with modern day life. "No-one can seriously sign up to this rubbish" I thought. Seems I was (and still am) wrong....sadly !

Conversations like this will be looked upon with a mixture of bewilderment and disdain by future generations.
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I am also one of those who believes they should have the right to marry but not adopt.

Perhaps you would like to point out where anyone said anything like, "I don't mind the gays, but no way can they have a family, the durty feckers. Down with that sort of thing!".

I don't have a prejudice against anything or anyone.

To me a family unit is mother, father and if lucky kids.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFBOQzSk14c
 
Gay Marraige For or Against :

Doesn't really bother me...but as for the debate on adoption - as previously stated l have no problem with gay couples..I do, however personally believe that it is fundamentally wrong and that children ideally should have a balanced upbringing with both a Mother & Father.
If it's not 'pc' to express this opinion on AAM then my utmost apologies..:rolleyes:
 
RMCF said:
I am one of those that is ok with gay marriage but not ok with them adopting children.

Currently this is probably based on the fact that I have imagined what it would be like for a child to head off to school if they had two dads/two mums, and the amount of abuse they would get for it. Many would suffer terribly because of it. OK so it would be wrong for it to happen, but it probably would happen.

Now if 50 years in the future it was a very common thing then it might be more widely accepted by people like myself (in 50yrs I'll not have to worry about it!) and by society in general, but in this current age I simply can't accept it. They can be married but they have to accept that if they have no ability to conceive themselves then they will have to live without children.
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So are you saying that only kids with gay parents will or do get bullied in school? LOADS of people get bullied at school regardless of whether they have gay parents or not!
 
Smashbox said:
I think kids would be blessed to have two parents, be they male and female, two females or two males - I'm sure they would be equally loved the same.

So if kids are gonna get bullied in school because they have two moms or two dads, the gay couple shouldn't be allowed to adopt?

What about people of interracial relationships, say one parent is black and one white. Do you think that kid is gonna be equally bullied? I would think so. Race is another thing frowned upon it would seem. So perhaps there should be a ban on mixed races coming together and having kids or adopting?

Not wanting to go down the religion route but I have to make a point. If one parent is of one religion, and the other of another, will that kid be equally as bullied as the two above? So perhaps different religions shouldnt come together either. I mean, people have died for two families of different religions coming together, right on our doorstep.

So, ban on gay people having kids. Where is the ban on race and religion too?

It doesn't matter about 'plumbing', or who has what. Surely someones love for another can't be helped, the way you have falled for your partner of choice, be them a man or a woman.
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In certain countries I would not allow mixed religion adoption as it would be dangerous for child and parents, but in this country which I'm presuming we are talking about, it would not be a problem considering so many people have such an obvious disdain for religion and the predominant religion of Catholicism is pretty passive so its not like for like.
Regarding mixed race adoption there would be a case for bullying of course but there are already many mixed race children well established in our society and again isn't like for like.
If you could name a gay couple who have had a child naturally themselves then there would be precedent for gay parents but as I've said nature doesn't permit.
 
jaybird said:
So its biological determinism that decides? What then of an infertile woman, her male partner cannot impregnate her, so she shouldn't be allowed to adopt? Doesn't really follow, does it? Nature alone does not dictate who can have children, with medical intervention, or if that fails, then via adoption. If straight couples can adopt, or use surrogates, the only barrier to gay couples following suit is moral or ethical, rather nullifying the biological element.
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Well by reading my previous post through the conclusion that you could come to would be that sterile couples are 'unlucky' Nature alone does dictate who can have children naturally. If a woman is sterile her male partner could still have a child with another woman. A gay man won't have a child with another man no matter how hard he tries.
 
S.L.F said:
Some of the worst Nazis were homosexual.
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But Hitler himself was a devout Christian...

So your point is ?



If all anyone can say against homosexuals adopting is that;
a. The kids may get bullied about it (lamest excuse ever...sure leave them in an orphanage then, they'll be better off:rolleyes:)
b. A 'Family' is Mammy & Daddy and kiddies...that's the way it's always been;
then the argument is lost.

It reminds me of the old story about monkeys in a cage
Start with a cage containing five monkeys.
Inside the cage, hang a banana on a string and place a set of stairs under it. Before long, a monkey will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the banana. As soon as he touches the stairs, spray all of the other monkeys with cold water.
After a while, another monkey makes an attempt with the same result - all the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water. Pretty soon, when another monkey tries to climb the stairs, the other monkeys will try to prevent it.
Now, put away the cold water. Remove one monkey from the cage and replace it with a new one. The new monkey sees the banana and wants to climb the stairs. To his surprise and horror, all of the other monkeys attack him.
After another attempt and attack, he knows that if he tries to climb the stairs, he will be assaulted.
Next, remove another of the original five monkeys and replace it with a new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm! Likewise, replace a third original monkey with a new one, then a fourth, then the fifth. Every time the newest monkey takes to the stairs, he is attacked.
Most of the monkeys that are beating him have no idea why they were not permitted to climb the stairs or why they are participating in the beating of the newest monkey.
After replacing all the original monkeys, none of the remaining monkeys have ever been sprayed with cold water. Nevertheless, no monkey ever again approaches the stairs to try for the banana.
Why not?

Because that's the way it's always been.
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Smashbox said:
Bren, who said you can't express opinion?

Its a forum. People are debating with both sides of the arguement.
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I think Bren may have been alluding to responses by Purple and Pique which seemed to suggest that those who disagreed with yours and their views were backward or foolish. Purple described some views as rubbish and Pique tried to crudely put a slant that if people are not liberal enough to accept gay marriage and adoption then they are basically homphobe cavemen.
I often find it funny to see the 'liberal' posters being the ones who are so slow to accept the views of others.
 
If you could name a gay couple who have had a child naturally themselves then there would be precedent for gay parents but as I've said nature doesn't permit.
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Many people (Both gay and straight) concieve through IVF and Sperm Doners all the time.
 
Chocks away said:
The OP was asking about gay marriage! What's the problem! Get the legalities over with and hit the sack! ;) But since we have arrived here, here is what I think. If you ask yourself the questions, "Would I like two Mammies?", "Would I like two Daddies?", "Would I like a Mammy and a Daddy?". Then your answer is your true belief. No posturing, PC guff or moral dilemma.
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Still no answer to the above question. To those who advocate homosexual/lesbian adoptive parents, why the silence?
Somebody is playing the colour card. Why bring it up - it is irrelevant to this discussion. Why muddy the water. And to the PC/moral high ground brigade - watch out for vertigo :)
 
OK, just to throw a spanner in the works.

Jack & Jill get married and have children.
Jill gets killed in a freak accident leaving Jack to raise the babies.
Jack subsequently realises that he has feelings for a gay man (let's call him Tom).
One thing leads to another and they enter a relationship and Tom moves into Jacks house.

Is this scenario acceptable to the posters who are against gay adoption?
If not, why not, and who should raise the children and why ?
 
Whatever way people have children, accidentally, on purpose, via IVF, surrogacy, adoption, why does the sexuality of the parent have any bearing whatsoever on what kind of parent they would make? There are plenty of heterosexual married couples that make for terrible parents, they haven't got any qualifications purely because they can easily produce a child.
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I agree with Jaybird.

CHOCKS! I thought you had asked a particular poster, which was why I didn't answer! I think a person is lucky if they have two parents at all, I would just love to have two parents, and am glad I do. But if they were two dads, two moms, a mom and a dad, they would love you all equally. I wouldn't mind at all.
 
Smashbox said:
I agree with Jaybird.

CHOCKS! I thought you had asked a particular poster, which was why I didn't answer! I think a person is lucky if they have two parents at all, I would just love to have two parents, and am glad I do. But if they were two dads, two moms, a mom and a dad, they would love you all equally. I wouldn't mind at all.
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How on earth do you know?
 
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