Gay Marraige For or Against
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S.L.F
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Or other.......er.........things
It seems that being raised without both a father and mother may have robbed you of a basic appreciation for how statistics are collated and what they mean. ( Just joking).
We all know smokers who lived to 100. This doesn't mean smoking is good for you.
We all know heavy drinkers who died at a ripe old age. This doesn't mean excessive alcohol is good for you.
There are many reputable peer-reviewed studies out there to show that on average, children do much better, and have far fewer behavioural problems, when raised by a father and mother as compared to being raised by a mother only. This doesn't mean that this is the only way to have a good upbringing.
It does mean that - absent better data - a man and a woman as parents is the model proven to produce ( on average) better results than just one parent. But it is hard to extrapolate to gay marriage and gay adoption - see my caveats in earlier posts.
And how many homosexual people do you know do this? As far as I am aware the 'gay and proud' bit is common to marches gay people undertake to attain equality where there are treated on an unequal basis on foot of their sexuality. It's a bit redundant to refer to the fact that you don't hear heterosexuals shouting 'heterosexual and proud' - is it not obvious that heterosexuals are not discriminated against because of their sexuality and hence have no need for this. If they were, then clearly they would be jumping and shouting as your suggest. The 'gay and proud' statement is no different to 'black and proud' or 'free tibet' or whatever other statement a minority chooses to get their voice heard over a majority which has taken a long time to even start listening. What's the big deal here? Sick of having to listen to minorities grumbling about rights? Hmmm....
What 'other things' do you mean? I wouldn't even hope to comment on the 'things' children in your company might have been exposed to. And why would I. Yet you seem comfortable with what would seem to be a puerile sneer towards a whole section of the community.
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Simeon
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All these minorities get hijacked eventually. Years ago "SAVE THE HUMPBACKED WHALE" was hijacked by "SAVE THE HUMPBACKED BRIDGE" brigade.
It's hard to believe your contribution to this debate is still fixated on this point about man&woman to the exclusion of any other argument. The short answer to your question above is 'No'. It's a lot more complex than that. The fixation on the exclusion of gay couples from even being considered as potential adoptive parents, who would be made subject to the same screening/criteria as any other couple, is genuinely incredible. Your statements on this thread have been one-dimensional and really have not gone beyond this one point on man/woman. I agree with you that it is really beyond time the thread was closed.
All these minorities get hijacked eventually. Years ago "SAVE THE HUMPBACKED WHALE" was hijacked by "SAVE THE HUMPBACKED BRIDGE" brigade.
?? What is your point?
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Simeon
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OK. Two sets of "parents" one same sex and one hetero .......... both have exactly the same credentials ........... which one would you consider the ideal choice for raising children?I did just fail statistics actually!
I agree with you, in fact, on the whole, the available evidence suggests 2 parents are better than one. But I don't think it hard to extrapolate to gay parenting, I think it impossible.
Rather it was SLF's continual insistance that children absolutely need a male and a female parent in order to have a decent upbringing without any substantive data to back it up that got my goat. Its just opinion, based on nothing.
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S.L.F
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Are you sure your parents weren't the same sex...........you seem totally.....confused!
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S.L.F
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Just so you understand the facts of life which you seem to have forgotten on more than 1 occasion this forum is for jokes and chat.
Can you please point out to us where I sneered at anybody if not please do the decent thing and withdraw that statement
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S.L.F
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I did just fail statistics actually!
I agree with you, in fact, on the whole, the available evidence suggests 2 parents are better than one. But I don't think it hard to extrapolate to gay parenting, I think it impossible.
Rather it was SLF's continual insistance that children absolutely need a male and a female parent in order to have a decent upbringing without any substantive data to back it up that got my goat. Its just opinion, based on nothing.
This whole thread is based on opinion nothing more.
I have seen no links, no proof, no smoking gun, no nothing, I'm a father and I suspect several others are parents too.
I'd love to know how many of you are parents
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S.L.F
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I don't know you as a person so how on earth am I supposed to answer that question?
I think the Benny Hill-type reference to 'other.....er.... things' says it all really.
That would be great to have a choice of two couples, because the children of two Identical couples ,who have had their children taken off them ,for the children's welfare ,would have a chance to be adopted by a couples who want them and will care for them.
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Simeon
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You are evading the point. Both sets of parents have exactly the same excellent credentials. Their sexual orientation being the only difference. So, any chance of an answer to a pretty straightforward question. Who, in your opinion, should be the adoptive parents? If you canot give a straight answer, you must be a civil servant
Just to note, there was a report completed earlier this year and it featured in many a press release from some religious "family means man an women" organisations and groups. I'm only presuming this is one of the reports referred to.
The point is that this report and its predecessors have received a large body of criticism from sociologists. While academic disagreement is nothing new, there are a couple of very big issues with those reports:
1. There was no evidence or link between whether same sex or "traditional" parenting was better. Mainly, there isn't an equal distribution of same sex parents to make the comparisson fair and it the issue of same sex parents hasn't been around long enough to make any judgements. There is no peer reviewed report that can make that statement as there isn't enough evidence.
2. The biggest problem with the recent reports is the distribution of samples. Largely they compared "single parent" families with "traditional" ones. However, the majority of single parent samples were from poor and deprived regions. The large body of "traditional" ones were from middle class areas. They didn't compare like with like and the report(s) doesn't allow for other factors to show why there may be a disfunction among children raised in those situations. A major flaw. File it with the studies showing legalising abortion means reduced crime rates.
In short, there is no study at all that can conclude either way on whether or not same sex parents are a good family unit. There just isn't the distribution of evidence to even begin a conclusive study on this.
All we are left with is prejudice and personal opinion.
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S.L.F
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I was answering a post by DaveyJones
The other things of course would be dressing up in womens cloths and dancing the Can Can or playing who's the baby today....
The list is endless
Just so you know the time to use a sarcastic smiley, it's just after the statement I just wrote....
Sneering is not something I do at anybody bar bad craftsmen.
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Simeon
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Wednesday, May 13, 2009
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Children of same sex parents ‘do just as well’
By Evelyn Ring
Friday, May 08, 2009
CHILDREN raised in same sex families do just as well as other children living with heterosexual parents, an Irish child expert has claimed.
Co-director of the Children’s Research Centre at Trinity College Dublin, Prof Sheila Greene, said there was no evidence that children in lesbian and gay families were experiencing the kind of problems that some people had predicted.
Prof Greene said: "Children within gay and lesbian families are not any more or less gay, they are not confused and they don’t suffer from mental health problems to any greater or lesser extend than children being reared by a biological mother and father."
She said debates about who should and should not parent children in Ireland must be informed by scientific evidence rather than unfounded assumptions, and sometimes biased beliefs, about the outcomes for children in lesbian and gay families.
The professor was one of the guest speakers at a national symposium called Marriage Matters for Lesbian and Gay People in Dublin, organised by the National Gay and Lesbian Federation.
She said it was now widely accepted that of the many reasons why children develop emotional or behavioural problems, the sexual orientation of parents did not appear to be one.
But Prof Greene said being raised by lesbian and gay parents was not plain sailing and she urged parents to be aware of the challenges that their children might face.
It was already known from recent Irish research that there was a high level of homophobia and bullying among young people.
"If children are teased because they wear glasses or because their parents were separated, it was reasonable to expect that children may be teased because of the sexual orientation of their parents.
"This will mean that children may have bad moments, like any others, not that they will be psychologically scarred or suffer from mental health problem. The important issue is that parents must be tuned into the needs of their children," she said.
Meanwhile, well known British-based human rights and gay rights campaigner, Peter Tatchell, said the Irish Government’s proposed civil partnership legislation was a big mistake and an insult to same-sex couples.
"It is a rejection of marriage equality. Separate laws for gay people are not equal laws," said Mr Tatchell.
The campaigner urged the Irish Government not to go down the same road as Britain with its flawed system of civil partnerships.
I hereby close this discussion. It's gotta be true if it appears in the newspaper.
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