Electric Car Value Trade In. Please Help

[AlbacoreA]

What exactly are the benefits of an EV?

I’m pretty clear on the downsides:

- Inability to get in one’s car and travel meaningful distance without a plan
- Needing to fit a charging point at home
- Garages no longer wanting them as trade-ins
- Human rights issues around children forced to dig-out cobalt with their bare hands
- Five figure sums to replace batteries
- Massive queues at charging points
- Taking ages to refuel your car
- A general shortage of charging points
- Domestic electricity being expensive
- Rapid technology advances rendering one’s purchase obsolete sooner
- Higher upfront cost
- Damage to the environment of manufacturing them
- Battery lifespan
- Lack of specialist mechanics to fix them resulting in high maintenance costs

Electric vehicles are a joke and some form of mania where zealots insist on telling you how great they are. They remain ridiculous for the reasons outlined above. It’s classic marketing spoof where we’re being fed a silly narrative to sell us something that’s rubbish compared to the incumbent product, the combustion engined vehicle.

What exactly are the benefits of an EV? You don't have most of the downsides of an ICE.

I’m pretty clear on the downsides:
You don't seem that well informed tbh. If it doesn't suit that's ok. I have no interest in a 4x4..

- Inability to get in one’s car and travel meaningful distance without a plan
ICE cars using maps and GPS. Seems like ICE drivers need to plan any meaningful distance.

- Needing to fit a charging point at home
You can charge it from 3 pin. So nope.

- Garages no longer wanting them as trade-ins
That's only temporary since late 2023. It's not like saying no one was buying houses post crash in 2008.

- Human rights issues around children forced to dig-out cobalt with their bare hands
Same children mining material for ICE cars oil etc.

- Five figure sums to replace batteries
Batteries mostly last the lifetime of the car.
ICE cars get written off all the time as uneconomical to repair.

- Massive queues at charging points
Massive queues in petrol station stations at times.

- Taking ages to refuel your car
Mostly the car is fuelled overnight. Ice cars have to always go to a garage.

- A general shortage of charging points
Bet there's more chargers at home than domestic petrol pumps. Any 3 pin socket is a charging point.

- Domestic electricity being expensive
It's cheaper than fossil fuel

- Rapid technology advances rendering one’s purchase obsolete sooner.
If it gets you from A to B it's not obsolete.

- Higher upfront cost
Buy a cheap one, after it's depreciated.

- Damage to the environment of manufacturing them
No different to ICE cars and Oil.

- Battery lifespan
Lifetime of the car for the vast majority.

- Lack of specialist mechanics to fix them resulting in high maintenance costs
Actually the maintenance costs are vastly lower.

 

[AlbacoreA]

You pick one to poke holes in but his THIRTEEN other reasons are perfectly valid.

Not really. Mostly just FUD.

 

[AlbacoreA]

If people don't find the advantages of an EV useful don't buy one. Simple as that.

What's happening in the motor industry is interesting. But it's obviously not going to be discussed rationally on this thread. But it's a bit puzzling why people on this thread are losing their minds about it.

 

[clinteastwood]

Yes, in that it supports the anti-EV argument!

A vehicle that’s adequate ‘80% of the time’ is ridiculous.

Imagine buying a cooker that can do everything except steak. “Ah sure it’s grand, sure we only have steak one say a week…you can whip out the BBQ and cook them in the rain” the earlier adopters will tell us.

A vehicle that needs military style planning and twice as much time to get to something like a wedding down the country is in chocolate teapot territory.

Who cares. If people want to fritter their pwn away on Chelsea tractors or EVs, that's their business and I'm happy for them to be contributing over the odds tax receipts to the exchequer.

EVs are just a different type of transport modal. They are excellent for Dublin but I wouldnt use one to cross the Sahara.

 

[AlbacoreA]

...but I wouldnt use one to cross the Sahara.

Thought I'd look that up...

Traveling Electric without chargepoints!? | 4x4electric

By electric car equipped with portable solar panels they leave the 4th of November for their SUSTAINABLE ROADTRIP from the Netherlands to South-Africa.

4x4electric.com

Solar-Powered Car Drives Across Morocco To The Sahara Without Using Charging Stations

The studen team behind the Stella Terra calls it the world's first solar-powered off-roader.

jalopnik.com

I drove an EV 500 miles across Morocco powered by the sun

Driving to the Sahara in a Skoda EV shows the potential for solar power

www.t3.com

Not across the Sahara exactly.

 

[Gordon Gekko]

Who cares. If people want to fritter their pwn away on Chelsea tractors or EVs, that's their business and I'm happy for them to be contributing over the odds tax receipts to the exchequer.

EVs are just a different type of transport modal. They are excellent for Dublin but I wouldnt use one to cross the Sahara.

The salient point is that ICE vehicles are useful in all circumstances whereas EVs are useful in limited circumstances.

That’s the nub of it.

There are EV salespeople telling potential customers that ‘they can always rent a car’ if they need to go to a country wedding or for a weekend away somewhere rural.

EVs are analagous to microwaves; they have their advantages but they can’t do everything.

Plug-in hybrids on the other hand, with something like a 60km range in EV mode and an ICE are a good idea.

 

[Angus]

Thought I'd look that up...

Traveling Electric without chargepoints!? | 4x4electric

By electric car equipped with portable solar panels they leave the 4th of November for their SUSTAINABLE ROADTRIP from the Netherlands to South-Africa.

4x4electric.com

Solar-Powered Car Drives Across Morocco To The Sahara Without Using Charging Stations

The studen team behind the Stella Terra calls it the world's first solar-powered off-roader.

jalopnik.com

I drove an EV 500 miles across Morocco powered by the sun

Driving to the Sahara in a Skoda EV shows the potential for solar power

www.t3.com

Not across the Sahar

EVs are a mugs game at this point in time ............ losses in value can't be supported by ordinary people (only mugs) and have a minor crash and you may be off the road for an indefinte time, garages dont want them as trade ins (even though they sold them), insurance companies don't want them as its mainly a write off cost with any tip, low batteries can't go over ramps., ........................... cant be justified on environmental ground as the mining in Africa by children is reprehensible (like sending children up chimneys in the past)

 

[arbitron]

Unless you are Jerry Seinfeld or Jay Leno collecting supercars then whatever vehicle you purchase is a financial liability. Some cars depreciate more slowly than others but they all lose value. Even middle-of-the road family cars can cost more in monthly payments than a mortgage. You can estimate that a car will be worth a particular amount in 3, 5, 10 years time but you are taking a gamble as it may go out of fashion, turn out to be a lemon, get dinged and scratched, etc. There's never a guarantee that it will hold value.

From an overall environmental point of view the best ways to travel from least to most polluting are: walking, cycling, public/shared transit, used EV, used ICE, new EV, new ICE. If you look just at local emissions then both 2nd hand and new ICE are by far the worst as they produce exhaust fumes that can have particularly harmful effects on children. Some people here may remember the bad smog problem Dublin had in the 1980s and Prof. Luke Clancy's campaign to prevent literally hundreds of deaths a year. I'm sure it's not controversial to try to reduce respiratory disease in babies. EVs have a role to play in this.

EVs do have an upfront carbon cost of production but after a couple of years that disappears and over their lifetime they are far less polluting than an ICE. Another big difference is that electricity is becoming more sustainable each year while fossil fuels are about as "clean" as they can ever be. There is also a lot to be said for getting our energy from a windfarm off Wicklow instead of from the maniac members of OPEC.

People greatly overestimate car range needs. 70% of daily car trips are shorter than 10km. Average commutes vary from 7km in Dublin to 17km nationally. Even the highest county average (Laois and Roscommon) is only 27km. That means an overnight charge at home once a week.

A VW Passat will suit most households but it would not suit a large family. If we were to follow the anti-EV thought process we would all drive mini-buses on the off chance that we needed to give a lift to a rugby 7s team going from Belfast to Ballybunion in such a hurry that we cannot stop for a toilet break.

 

[arbitron]

Nonesense .............. there is “ample evidence to suggest that EVs are not as clean as people are being led to believe and folks deserve to know the truth”. Volvo research suggesting greenhouse gas emissions during production of an electric car are almost 70% higher than when manufacturing a petrol one. The grain of truth in the criticism is that EVs do indeed take significantly more energy to manufacture. Battery production requires large amounts of electricity to heat ovens to bake electrode materials, and to charge and discharge the battery to prepare it for use. While electricity can be produced with zero emissions, most countries still burn carbon-heavy fossil fuels to turn generators. Analysis by the Argonne National Laboratory in Illinois, cited by the US Environmental Protection Agency, suggests that manufacturing battery cars produces about 60% more carbon emissions than their fossil fuel cousins.

This has been addressed and disproven many times over:

Life cycle emissions for EU electric cars are three times lower than for petrol cars​

See also:

Euronews: From manufacture to lifetime emissions, just how green are EVs compared to petrol or diesel cars?

The carbon gap between BEV and ICE cars may be significant when a car is first sold but during the lifetime on the road, ICE cars continue to emit CO2 while electric cars emit no emissions except particles from tyres and brakes.

The benefits of BEVs will only increase as the electricity grid becomes greener but even a BEV driven in Poland with a battery produced in China, still emits 37 per cent less CO2 than petrol.

Scientific American: Electric Vehicles Beat Gas Cars on Climate Emissions over Time

The production of battery-powered vehicles creates more carbon dioxide than making those that run on gasoline, a new report says. But EVs overcome the emissions difference relatively quickly.

An average EV produced in the U.S. in 2023 will close the gap in about 2.2 years or 25,000 miles, according to analysis released Monday by Bloomberg New Energy Finance.

US EPA: EV Myths

• Myth #1: Electric vehicles are worse for the climate than gasoline cars because of power plant emissions.
• Myth #2: Electric vehicles are worse for the climate than gasoline cars because of battery manufacturing.
• Myth #3: The increase in electric vehicles entering the market will collapse the U.S. power grid.
• Myth #4: There is nowhere to charge.
• Myth #5: Electric vehicles don’t have enough range to handle daily travel demands.
• Myth #6: Electric vehicles only come as sedans.
• Myth #7: Electric vehicles are not as safe as comparable gasoline vehicles.

 

[arbitron]

the mining in Africa by children is reprehensible (like sending children up chimneys in the past)

This is the most valid criticism of not just EVs but all electronic use. Every one of us posting/reading here is using technology in our daily lives that has some link to child labour and human rights abuses. Amnesty International and other groups have been talking about this for years, since before Teslas or Nissan Leafs were ever on the roads.

 

[Blackrock1]

EVs are a mugs game at this point in time ............ losses in value can't be supported by ordinary people (only mugs) and have a minor crash and you may be off the road for an indefinte time, garages dont want them as trade ins (even though they sold them), insurance companies don't want them as its mainly a write off cost with any tip, low batteries can't go over ramps., ........................... cant be justified on environmental ground as the mining in Africa by children is reprehensible (like sending children up chimneys in the past)

You must get all of your information from Facebook groups or the comments section of an indo article, another brilliant collection of untruth and nonsense. You should be embarrassed posting that.

 

[Blackrock1]

The salient point is that ICE vehicles are useful in all circumstances whereas EVs are useful in limited circumstances.

That’s the nub of it.

There are EV salespeople telling potential customers that ‘they can always rent a car’ if they need to go to a country wedding or for a weekend away somewhere rural.

EVs are analagous to microwaves; they have their advantages but they can’t do everything.

Plug-in hybrids on the other hand, with something like a 60km range in EV mode and an ICE are a good idea.

I could have sworn I've driven to Kerry and back without any issues maybe I imagined it

 

[Angus]

You must get all of your information from Facebook groups or the comments section of an indo article, another brilliant collection of untruth and nonsense. You should be embarrassed posting that.

Facts matter ..................
EVs do take significantly more energy to manufacture. Battery production requires large amounts of electricity to heat ovens to bake electrode materials, and to charge and discharge the battery to prepare it for use. While electricity can be produced with zero emissions, most countries still burn carbon-heavy fossil fuels to turn generators. Analysis by the Argonne National Laboratory in Illinois, cited by the US Environmental Protection Agency, suggests that manufacturing battery cars produces about 60% more carbon emissions than their fossil fuel cousins..... And thats not the costing the misery in mining these minerals ............ I'ts like sending children up the chimneys again.

Volvo research suggesting greenhouse gas emissions during production of an electric car are almost 70% higher than when manufacturing a petrol one.

 

[Blackrock1]

Facts matter ..................
EVs do take significantly more energy to manufacture. Battery production requires large amounts of electricity to heat ovens to bake electrode materials, and to charge and discharge the battery to prepare it for use. While electricity can be produced with zero emissions, most countries still burn carbon-heavy fossil fuels to turn generators. Analysis by the Argonne National Laboratory in Illinois, cited by the US Environmental Protection Agency, suggests that manufacturing battery cars produces about 60% more carbon emissions than their fossil fuel cousins..... And thats not the costing the misery in mining these minerals ............ I'ts like sending children up the chimneys again.

Volvo research suggesting greenhouse gas emissions during production of an electric car are almost 70% higher than when manufacturing a petrol one.

Go back a few posts and educate yourself.

 

[AlbacoreA]

The salient point is that ICE vehicles are useful in all circumstances whereas EVs are useful in limited circumstances.

That’s the nub of it.

There are EV salespeople telling potential customers that ‘they can always rent a car’ if they need to go to a country wedding or for a weekend away somewhere rural.

EVs are analagous to microwaves; they have their advantages but they can’t do everything.

Plug-in hybrids on the other hand, with something like a 60km range in EV mode and an ICE are a good idea.

These would be the same sales people who filled cities with diesels and 4x4s to drive a mile to school.

Oddly enough a 2 seater ICE can't carry a family of 4 on any journey. Doesn't seem it can do "all" circumstances.

 

[AlbacoreA]

The salient point is that ICE vehicles are useful in all circumstances whereas EVs are useful in limited circumstances.

That’s the nub of it.

There are EV salespeople telling potential customers that ‘they can always rent a car’ if they need to go to a country wedding or for a weekend away somewhere rural.

EVs are analagous to microwaves; they have their advantages but they can’t do everything.

Plug-in hybrids on the other hand, with something like a 60km range in EV mode and an ICE are a good idea.

Is meaningful distance now 60k, I was expecting more. Usually in these threads it's 1000km non stop.

 

[Angus]

Go back a few posts and educate yourself.

At the moment. It’s a Mugs Game and I feel very sorry for people that lost €22k in a year, who can afford that? I wish it was different but I get no pleasure in these results.

 

[Blackrock1]

At the moment. It’s a Mugs Game and I feel very sorry for people that lost €22k in a year, who can afford that? I wish it was different but I get no pleasure in these results.

Buying a new car has always been a mugs game you must have a lot of pity to spread around.

 

[AlbacoreA]

Apparently all cars depreciate...who knew...

Why has my Audi A6 depreciated so much? | Ask Carzone

Do you need motoring advice? Get unbiased advice now and ask our expert a question with Ask Carzone

www.carzone.ie

EV market is in price war since mid 2023.

 

[Angus]

Buying a new car has always been a mugs game you must have a lot of pity to spread around.

True but the EV stories are very worrying. I am waiting to move from ICE to PHEV or EV or whatever. If I had bought the ID4 as planned last year I would be nursing a loss of €22K which is unsustainable for a normal person. If the EVs go like Mobile Phones or Computers then when does one buy, the investmanet is huge unlile a mobile phone. My depreciation on the ICE is €4-5 per year so I don't have the answer and putting off the decison.