Are you legally obliged to pay management fees to a co looking after apartment cmplx?
- Thread starter Cracker
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Re: Management Companies?
You (the owners) are the management company. You pay a management fee to an agent, which includes their fee and a fess for refuse charges, maintenance etc. The agent is initially chosen by the developer.
If it is a new apartment, you have more than likely signed a (legally binding) contract that you will pay fees. If not, you can be taken to court. You cannot sell the apartment unless fees paid are up to date.
There is plenty of dicussion elsewhere on the site on management companies etc.
You (the owners) are the management company. You pay a management fee to an agent, which includes their fee and a fess for refuse charges, maintenance etc. The agent is initially chosen by the developer.
If it is a new apartment, you have more than likely signed a (legally binding) contract that you will pay fees. If not, you can be taken to court. You cannot sell the apartment unless fees paid are up to date.
There is plenty of dicussion elsewhere on the site on management companies etc.
Re: Management Companies?
Read the management company lease agreement that came with your house deeds and which your presumably signed. Better still read this before signing it and so you can decide in advance if the terms are acceptable to you.
I
ITGuru
Guest
Management Company Fee Rip Off !
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As in any other sector people in Ireland are ripped off by management companies by extracting un-justifiable amount. What they do and what we pay actually doesnt match?
It is a pity that politicians dont care , react and respond when people are exploited (Except the residents of TYRELLSTOWN who have joined hands and challenged the fee at the court, at least they are not sleeping !). We just pay whatever we are asked to pay even with out knowing what it is for or any other alternatives. In many of the cases it is developers own company which is masquerading as the management company. I think, the residents should have the right to choose the management company.
At least there is a debate now. Hope it wont end like any other Rip off discussion !
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As in any other sector people in Ireland are ripped off by management companies by extracting un-justifiable amount. What they do and what we pay actually doesnt match?
It is a pity that politicians dont care , react and respond when people are exploited (Except the residents of TYRELLSTOWN who have joined hands and challenged the fee at the court, at least they are not sleeping !). We just pay whatever we are asked to pay even with out knowing what it is for or any other alternatives. In many of the cases it is developers own company which is masquerading as the management company. I think, the residents should have the right to choose the management company.
At least there is a debate now. Hope it wont end like any other Rip off discussion !
Re: Management Company Fee Rip Off !
Not true in all cases-I am happy enough at how our fees are allocated/spent.
Again, not true in all cases. Our managing agent has no connection with the developer, the owners have representation on the board, and owners could fire the managing agent and hire someone else (or do it themselves) to manage the development.
I'm not saying that every development is run as ours, but it is not true to say that the situation is as you have described in all cases.
Not true in all cases-I am happy enough at how our fees are allocated/spent.
ITGuru said:
Again, not true in all cases. Our managing agent has no connection with the developer, the owners have representation on the board, and owners could fire the managing agent and hire someone else (or do it themselves) to manage the development.
I'm not saying that every development is run as ours, but it is not true to say that the situation is as you have described in all cases.
Re: Management Company Fee Rip Off !
Again, not true. Our management fees come with a full breakdown of costs for each element of the management of the complex. The breakdown clearly shows the different prices paid by different appartments (i.e. 2 bed vs. 3 bed vs. aparts served by lift) and how the costs were allocated.
Anyone with issues over the costs could clearly see where the figures were drawn from and doing some homework show that the fees were an accurate reflection of the work.
Again, not true. Our management fees come with a full breakdown of costs for each element of the management of the complex. The breakdown clearly shows the different prices paid by different appartments (i.e. 2 bed vs. 3 bed vs. aparts served by lift) and how the costs were allocated.
Anyone with issues over the costs could clearly see where the figures were drawn from and doing some homework show that the fees were an accurate reflection of the work.
Re: Management Company Fee Rip Off !
For the umpteenth time ... in most cases the householders are or will eventually be shareholders/owners of the management company so if they're not happy with the way things are run they have the power to change things. For example by running for election to the board of directors, becoming involved in committees, changing the management agent employed, or even doing a hands on job on the day to day management of the estate. Nobody is forced to buy in a privately managed estate so if they don't like such a setup they should look elsewhere. In general I don't see that there's any rip off here..
As in any other sector people in Ireland are ripped off by management companies by extracting un-justifiable amount. What they do and what we pay actually doesnt match?
I got the letter in the post the other day about some move by the Government to examine the whole issue of private management companies in the wider context of the Law Reform Commission's study of this area.
I suspect that you are confusing management agent and management company here.
P
prech
Guest
Re: Management Companies?
Hi,
i recently bought a house in Beaupark and the term being used by the builder was "no fees no Keys" so you have to pay the first year if you want to sign for your house. Beaupark is still a building site and very little is being done, apart from Bins being collected.
I agree with fees for Apt buildings (lifts and carpets etc), but when where they introduced for houses in estates, do i not pay tax for the DCC to come in and clean roads, ensure lights are working and general upkeep of the area. Is this not another form of Double taxation.
I will not be paying these the second year!!
Hi,
i recently bought a house in Beaupark and the term being used by the builder was "no fees no Keys" so you have to pay the first year if you want to sign for your house. Beaupark is still a building site and very little is being done, apart from Bins being collected.
I agree with fees for Apt buildings (lifts and carpets etc), but when where they introduced for houses in estates, do i not pay tax for the DCC to come in and clean roads, ensure lights are working and general upkeep of the area. Is this not another form of Double taxation.
I will not be paying these the second year!!
Re: Management Companies?
I thought that this was the rule rather than the exception?
Then your management company should have a healthy surplus/sinking fund on its first year of accounts so.
If it is then it's perfectly avoidable by buying in an estate that is or will be taken in charge by the Local Authority. Nobody is forced to buy in a privately managed development.
This could be cutting off your nose to spite your face by not enabling your management company to do the job required and in relation to which you presumably signed a legally binding lease agreement.
P
prech
Guest
Re: Management Companies?
Not sure what i signed regards to mgnt fees, signed a lot of stuff around that time, but can find nothing that ties me to them. Either way i don't pay for services i do not rec.
Not sure what i signed regards to mgnt fees, signed a lot of stuff around that time, but can find nothing that ties me to them. Either way i don't pay for services i do not rec.
Re: Management Companies?
If you don't pay a) you can be sued and b) you can never sell the house legally. I strongly advise you to find what you signed and what you committed to as it won't go away. Also your neighbours won't feel too kindly about it.
The new practice of management fees on individual houses is a builders scam but until laws to prohibit this are passed it's legal and just a way of the builder passing on his liabilities to you.
If you don't pay a) you can be sued and b) you can never sell the house legally. I strongly advise you to find what you signed and what you committed to as it won't go away. Also your neighbours won't feel too kindly about it.
The new practice of management fees on individual houses is a builders scam but until laws to prohibit this are passed it's legal and just a way of the builder passing on his liabilities to you.
Re: Management Companies?
Never sign anything you don't understand. The document that sets out the agreement between the management company and the individual owner is usually called the leasehold agreement. Ask your solicitor to explain.
When you say
what do you mean?
Management fees are based on a budget. If the budget is not spent, as ClubMan says, there will be a surplus in the accounts, which can be set against future service payments, or diverted to a sinking fund, which covers major projects like repainting etc.
The breakdown of the fees received and how they are spent should be detailed in the annual accounts, which should be distributed to all owners/members, and then discussed at the AGM. If this isn't happening, you should be asking questions, refusing to pay is a last resort.
Never sign anything you don't understand. The document that sets out the agreement between the management company and the individual owner is usually called the leasehold agreement. Ask your solicitor to explain.
When you say
prech said:
what do you mean?
Management fees are based on a budget. If the budget is not spent, as ClubMan says, there will be a surplus in the accounts, which can be set against future service payments, or diverted to a sinking fund, which covers major projects like repainting etc.
The breakdown of the fees received and how they are spent should be detailed in the annual accounts, which should be distributed to all owners/members, and then discussed at the AGM. If this isn't happening, you should be asking questions, refusing to pay is a last resort.
Re: Management Companies?
Let's turn this on it's head for a second-say you live in one of 300 hundred apartments-how would you deal with refuse, maintenance. lighting of common areas etc.? Remember, there has been a huge increase in large scale apartment-heavy developments in Ireland in the last 10 years-is it realistic to expect your local council to service all developments in a timely and satisfactory fashion?
Let's turn this on it's head for a second-say you live in one of 300 hundred apartments-how would you deal with refuse, maintenance. lighting of common areas etc.? Remember, there has been a huge increase in large scale apartment-heavy developments in Ireland in the last 10 years-is it realistic to expect your local council to service all developments in a timely and satisfactory fashion?
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prech
Guest
Re: Management Companies?
I take your points, i have just become synical in regards to these companies,, they seem to be a law onto themselves.
I don't sign anything I don't understand, and from my records cannot find any agreement between myself and mgnt company, but will consult s
Election is coming up will blast any politican unlucky enough to knock my door.
Thanx
I take your points, i have just become synical in regards to these companies,, they seem to be a law onto themselves.
I don't sign anything I don't understand, and from my records cannot find any agreement between myself and mgnt company, but will consult s
Election is coming up will blast any politican unlucky enough to knock my door.
Thanx
Re: Management Companies?
They are not - they are normally limited companies owned by the householders who are members/shareholders who have full control over their operation. Painting it as a them and us situation is missing the point.
Do your records contain a fully set/copy of all the legal documentation that you signed as part of the property purchase process? If not then you should indeed check with your solicitor.
Why? It's not their problem or concern that you or others decided to buy in a privately managed development and now, after the fact, don't like it.
P
prech
Guest
Re: Management Companies?
its not a private estate, its just DCC somewhere along the line, took the decision not to enter these estates until signed off by builder/DCC. When this is signed off they will enter and maintain it, as they should thats what i pay my taxes for.
This was my orginal q, when and where was this decided, in effect I am paying 2 agencies to do the same job.
its not a private estate, its just DCC somewhere along the line, took the decision not to enter these estates until signed off by builder/DCC. When this is signed off they will enter and maintain it, as they should thats what i pay my taxes for.
This was my orginal q, when and where was this decided, in effect I am paying 2 agencies to do the same job.
Re: Management Companies?
Presumably you were aware of this situation when buying and went ahead regardless? Your choice. If you were not aware of this then you should be asking your solicitor why s/he didn't apprise you of this important issue.
P
prech
Guest
Re: Management Companies?
Your missing the big picture here.
Its not that I knew or didn't know, because i was aware of it "no fees, no keys" there's a catchphrase for it, for Gods sake.
Why has this situation arose without our leaders doing something about it, (maybe because the building trade donates a lot of money to party funds or invites them to sponsored race days....go figure) the first couple of years are the hardest in a new home, yet you get this fee lumped on you for a service you should be getting for being a tax payer in this country anyway.
you seem to have accepted a form of double taxation very easily.
Your missing the big picture here.
Its not that I knew or didn't know, because i was aware of it "no fees, no keys" there's a catchphrase for it, for Gods sake.
Why has this situation arose without our leaders doing something about it, (maybe because the building trade donates a lot of money to party funds or invites them to sponsored race days....go figure) the first couple of years are the hardest in a new home, yet you get this fee lumped on you for a service you should be getting for being a tax payer in this country anyway.
you seem to have accepted a form of double taxation very easily.
Re: Management Companies?
How?
Please take rants to Letting Off Steam and stick to discussing the issue in hand. Thanks.
I'm just pointing out that nobody is forced to buy in a development which is privately managed either short term (e.g. until the LA takes it in charge) or longer term (e.g. indefinitely).