Are you legally obliged to pay management fees to a co looking after apartment cmplx?

Re: Management Companies?

If there was no management company would the green areas be kept tidy? Would there be as much security? And anythign else these companies supposedly do. I think that they could. When I was groing up my Dad took the initiative to get the entire estate to look after the place. It meant putting a kitty together for someone to come in and cut the grass, they had parades around the estate (seems naff now) and organised a football tournament. These things were all taken care of by the residents. It just takes a bit of initiative and from 1 of them. Getting ripped off by agencies is not the future
 
Re: Management Companies?

Not really. Agent or company? If it's the former then the management company of which one is a member/shareholder can deal with any alleged rip-off by ditching the agent and employing another. If it's the latter then the member/shareholder can easily take direct action (e.g. stand for election, mobilise other member/shareholders) to deal with any alleged rip-off on the part of the company which is also circumscribed in its behaviour by CRO rules and legislation.

Of course some people won't let the facts get in the way of a good rip-off Ireland victimhood claim.
 
Re: Management Companies?

ClubMan said:
Not really. Agent or company? If it's the former then the management company of which one is a member/shareholder can deal with any alleged rip-off by ditching the agent and employing another. If it's the latter then the member/shareholder can easily take direct action (e.g. stand for election, mobilise other member/shareholders) to deal with any alleged rip-off on the part of the company which is also circumscribed in its behaviour by CRO rules and legislation.

Of course some people won't let the facts get in the way of a good rip-off Ireland victimhood claim.
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But that has nothing to do with what I said. Residents for themselves.
 
Re: Management Companies?

If we are talking about apartments (which the OP was asking about), or any large scale development, I don't think it is feasible to depend on the residents themselves to run it without:

(a) a legally binding agreement to pay fees signed by all owners; and
(b) someone to run the company day-to-day.

Re. (b), if you can summon enough volunteers to ensure fees are collected, negotiate contracts with service providers, field (irate) calls from other owners, send out circulars to owners, organise and run the AGM (certainly not I role I would relish), then fair enough. But doing this for a development of 200-300 apartments (common enough around Dublin these days) on a voluntary basis seems slighly unrealistic IMHO.

The agent's fee is only one part of the overall management fee. Getting rid of agents altogther isn't ideal in the case of large developments IMHO.
 
Re: Management Companies?

CCOVICH said:
If we are talking about apartments (which the OP was asking about), or any large scale development, I don't think it is feasible to depend on the residents themselves to run it without:

(a) a legally binding agreement to pay fees signed by all owners; and
(b) someone to run the company day-to-day.

Re. (b), if you can summon enough volunteers to ensure fees are collected, negotiate contracts with service providers, field (irate) calls from other owners, send out circulars to owners, organise and run the AGM (certainly not I role I would relish), then fair enough. But doing this for a development of 200-300 apartments (common enough around Dublin these days) on a voluntary basis seems slighly unrealistic IMHO.

The agent's fee is only one part of the overall management fee. Getting rid of agents altogther isn't ideal in the case of large developments IMHO.
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What needs to be done day to day? Its more like on a weekly basis. Plus, when, as I said, someone takes the initiative to show the other residents how much they will be saving, how well the estate will work as a community and the fact that the security they get will be from their neighbours, not a stranger you hardly ever see. When its done liek this, people like to help each other out.
 
Re: Management Companies?

rkeane said:
What needs to be done day to day? Its more like on a weekly basis. Plus, when, as I said, someone takes the initiative to show the other residents how much they will be saving, how well the estate will work as a community and the fact that the security they get will be from their neighbours, not a stranger you hardly ever see. When its done liek this, people like to help each other out.
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Who is going to volunteer to knock on every door to collect money for public liability insurance? In my parents estate they do everything on a voluntary basis because it is a small settled estate. No need for management companies and everyone takes it in turn to maintain the common areas.

In my own estate I wouldn't dream of even attempting this and there is only about 50 units in the estate.
 
Re: Management Companies?

room305 said:
Who is going to volunteer to knock on every door to collect money for public liability insurance? In my parents estate they do everything on a voluntary basis because it is a small settled estate. No need for management companies and everyone takes it in turn to maintain the common areas.

In my own estate I wouldn't dream of even attempting this and there is only about 50 units in the estate.
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Nobody needs to know on doors. They can have weelk or fortnightly meetings. Or even a bank account number to pay it to. You migth not dream of doing it because you dont know your neighbours. I dont know your situation but would you feel more comfortable doing it where you grew up?
 
Re: Management Companies?

rkeane said:
Nobody needs to know on doors. They can have weelk or fortnightly meetings. Or even a bank account number to pay it to. You migth not dream of doing it because you dont know your neighbours. I dont know your situation but would you feel more comfortable doing it where you grew up?
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Even with a bank a/c number what do you do if someone doesn't pay? Call around and demand the money? Send them a solicitors letter?

If we are going to build large housing estates and apartment blocks we need to be realistic about how they will be managed.

As I said, where my parents live it is easy for them to do things on a voluntary basis because it is a small settled estate. I don't think a house has even been sold there in over six years.

In a bigger development it is just not practical to maintain the area in this way and so you either need a LA to do it or a MC and MA.
 
Re: Management Companies?

room305 said:
Even with a bank a/c number what do you do if someone doesn't pay? Call around and demand the money? Send them a solicitors letter?

If we are going to build large housing estates and apartment blocks we need to be realistic about how they will be managed.

As I said, where my parents live it is easy for them to do things on a voluntary basis because it is a small settled estate. I don't think a house has even been sold there in over six years.

In a bigger development it is just not practical to maintain the area in this way and so you either need a LA to do it or a MC and MA.
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The estate my dad did it on had a few hundred houses. House owners arent kids and are more likely to pay when its saving them money, they are getting a nicer living environment back and often wouldnt want their neighbours to think they are broke. I think it can work, especially if estates are broken up into smaller sectors.
 
Re: Management Companies?

rkeane said:
What needs to be done day to day? Its more like on a weekly basis. Plus, when, as I said, someone takes the initiative to show the other residents how much they will be saving, how well the estate will work as a community and the fact that the security they get will be from their neighbours, not a stranger you hardly ever see. When its done liek this, people like to help each other out.
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If you feel it is feasible in a development of 200-300, then fair enough. I just don't think so myself.
 
Re: Management Companies?

room305 said:
If we are going to build large housing estates and apartment blocks we need to be realistic about how they will be managed.
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absolutely correct.

I would think that if there is a gate or a front door its an MC and MA scenario and if not it should be taken in charge in a given number of years.

the reasons we have an MC not an LA in charge of some estates is

1. LAs do not have a clear obligation to take over , ah sure they might in time, maybe , but they are grand sure .
2. a FUNCTIONING MC can POSSIBLY manage it better, if so surely they can claim some money off the LA towards their expenses ...non ???
3. A property owner can faff around to build on the green areas in future as has happened by fudging ownership and taking in charge.
4. The owners in a 60% vote can opt in or out of LA control....and if out they must gate :D

The whole issue needs statute law and clarity and pronto , roll in ground rent into that as well.

But apartment complexes and gated communities should be force to manage themsleves with penalties for opt outers .

Each LA should have a compliance officer ( including their own compliance)
 
Re: Management Companies?

I am considering purchasing a property in a privately managed estate and have a problem I hope someone might be able to help me with. Having been advised of 3 different management fees by the EA, I decided to take the initiative and call the management company who would surely be able to provide transparency re charges and basic services rendered?? Apallingly, I have so far gotten yet two more different yearly rates from the management company and an outright refusal to supply a specimen contract for review by prospective buyer. They have said that they do not hold the lease agreement and I need to contact my solicitor re same. Surely this is 'caveat emptor' gone too far? Surely I do not have to wait until signing day and incur legal fees to discover the rates and terms of what may be a 999-year financial committment. Consumer Agency says technically they are right, but in practice most would provide access to specimen T&Cs for the sake of customer service/ courtesy. Feel free to PM me any info and thanks in advance!
 
Re: Management Companies?

rkeane said:
The estate my dad did it on had a few hundred houses. House owners arent kids and are more likely to pay when its saving them money, they are getting a nicer living environment back and often wouldnt want their neighbours to think they are broke. I think it can work, especially if estates are broken up into smaller sectors.
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Would think your dad must be one of the lucky ones. We're continually getting letters from our management co. advising so many apt owners haven't paid their annual fees and the number of owners they are taking court action against for this. I can't see how neighbours would tackle this, particularly for non owner occupiers.

It is simply unfair that people who comply and pay their fees on time should have to carry those who don't, and without a management company trying to enforce this, the numbers would certainly increase.
 
Re: Many members act as management company agents !

CelloPoint said:
Property management fee = 2k pa over 30 year mortgage term = 60k + inflation. So in real terms, you could probably buy a house that's 100k more expensive simply by refusing to purchase a managed property.
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This is not a valid comparison. You have 'forgotten' to include all the costs that go with running a house. The property management fee for an apartment includes your buildings and liability insurance, upkeep of common areas, window cleaning, waste disposal, contribution towards 'major expense' items down the line (replace the roof; replace the lift; painting the exterior walls etc.), and also the cost of someone else doing all this for you. Now, can you add in what all of these items cost you when you are running a house by yourself? Then we might have a valid comparison.
 
Re: Management Companies?

We (a no of residents) were unhappy with our management company directors and the management agent - who was doing nothing. A group of us were elected as the replacement directors. We are doing our best to meet with the management agent - to get details of our current status - receipts, invoices, accounts etc. He keeps avoiding all our calls. What can we do to get him to hand over the 'accounts'.
 
Re: Management Companies?

Ri Ra - in answer to your question, maybe you could consider calling in person to the agents office. Make a pest of yourself until they provide the information.

On a seperate point, the Office of the Director of Corporate Enforcement are conducting an e-consultation on management companies. The website is www.odce.ie Some of the posters on this site might be interested. The documentation is long but don't let that deter you!
 
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