Would you vote for a FF candidate if . . .

[Mpsox]

I would argue that they presided over this period rather than delivered it - big difference IMO.

Arguably, FG/Lab deserve the credit for being responsible for the general upward trend in the economy - but a different argument I guess, and OT.

Ultimately, you have hit the nail on the head though with the old historical FF/FG pro & anti treaty allegiances. That it can be more likely that a FF supporter will switch to SF over FG speaks volumes IMO.

It's potentially a fair comment and a discussion for another post as to who was responsible for the Celtic Tiger

As for a FF voter switching to SF, I can't speak for others but having had my house shook by IRA bombs, my desk blown to smithereens by IRA bombs and my wife threatened by IRA bank robbers and having watched SF politicians claim expenses despite never attending the House of Commons I for one would vote for anyone bar them

 

[liaconn]

I'm one of the 40% so let me try and answer that question. Perhaps firstly, why did I vote FF. Lots of reasons

• Partially family history, my family have always voted FF, the local TD is from the same parish (and is a good local politician and a decent man who has helped us in the past). In addition, the ancestors of the local FG politicians fired guns at my ancestors, don't underestimate the impact that memory that has in rural areas.

quote]

This is what drives me mad about the way we vote in Ireland. (and the reason why so many bog standard people are sitting in the Dail making crucial decisions about our futures.

 

[cork]

This is what drives me mad about the way we vote in Ireland. (and the reason why so many bog standard people are sitting in the Dail making crucial decisions about our futures.

Look at the shower in the UK - claiming for DVD players and TVs. SF claiming expenses while not even taking their seats.


The Irish had their property boom - just the same as the US and the UK.

Looking to scapegoat politics for peoples stupidity beggers belief.

 

[S.L.F]

Partially their performance in the past, FF did deliver the most prosperous period in Irish history,

This is one of the things our old friend Bertie would have us believe the fact is it was FG and Lab who put the steps in place for the Tiger to grow not FF.

So was I right to vote FF?. Probably not in hindsight but hindsight is a wonderful thing. In fairness, some of the issues were out of their control, it's not FF fault that the housing market in the US plunged for example. What has disappointed me is the lack of leadership from Cowan, the perception I have that Lenihan is making it up as he goes along, Coughlin is out of her depth and so on and so forth and ultimately the fact that they blew it.

It is not FF's fault the housing market in the states plunged but 2 years ago when they took power there was speculation that they might change the precentage of stamp duty and for the best part of a year people were wary of buying houses and that was where the fall started.

However I also remain to be convinced that other parties would have done things radically better. In fairness, they may have done but can we say for certain they would have.?

We can say FF blew it and they have wasted Billions.

For myself the only way I would vote for FF is if the other option is to have my kidneys removed through my nose and even then I'd have to think about it.

 

[liaconn]

Look at the shower in the UK - claiming for DVD players and TVs. SF claiming expenses while not even taking their seats.


The Irish had their property boom - just the same as the US and the UK.

Looking to scapegoat politics for peoples stupidity beggers belief.

So you're saying FF have nothing to do with the mess we're in now? That they were not hand in hand with developers, builders etc? That all that stuff that's come out in the tribunals is not an inditment (sp?) of some of their members?

 

[cork]

It is not FF's fault the housing market in the states plunged but 2 years ago when they took power there was speculation that they might change the precentage of stamp duty and for the best part of a year people were wary of buying houses and that was where the fall started.

Cowen stood up to a massive campaign from opposition parties and media aganist making big changes to stamp duty that would have further fueled the property frenzy.


FG wanted to cut stamp duty.

Taking about blowing tax money - at one time that party wanted to compansate Eircom shareholders.

 

[S.L.F]

Taking about blowing tax money - at one time that party wanted to compansate Eircom shareholders.

Well if you want to bring Eircom into this.

Question:- who sold Eircom and who picked the price.

Answer:- FF (Mary O'Rouke)

 

[NorthDrum]

If that individual is so wonderful, they can always choose to go independent. They don't have to choose a party like FF with all it's connotations.


It isn't out of spite, it's because of what FF stand for that I don't vote for them.


Aside from a political system overhaul (is that what you mean?) the current system is the one in place and I vote in accordance with that system. I currently don't need re-education on my views

You see I had this arguement with a mate of mine and you have highlighted a great inequality in our electorate system. I could be the best candidate in the world. If I choose to go independent I will have less backup and funding if I am not in a party. It flies in the face of "everybody having an equal opportunity to be elected" ideal.

I am suggesting a political system overhaul, Im not saying exactly what could be done to improve it though (I only make the suggestions, not how they should be implemented).

And I wasnt picking on one particular person here, I was simply saying that many people will vote against FF out of spite, some out of blind loyalty to other parties, some out of lack of understanding of FF's policies (if there are any at the moment) among other bad reasons to vote against FF. Until we fix this mindset we will only ever stumble from mistake to mistake . . Learning from your mistakes isnt about voting for the opposite to the party that led you there, its about taking them on board and demanding better from all involved. What we demand, we will get, problem is that we are simply demanding a differant government (as opposed to a government that shows honesty, integrity and the peoples interest at heart. Does anybody think the next party will have that . . Not a chance . . So why are we accepting that this is just the way it will be . ..

 

[micheller]

OP, I do see your argument, totally. And an overhaul could be the answer.

But in Ireland we tend to have a lot of family political dynasties who really aren't short of resources. Aren't there also grants for independents?
It's true the resources are lessened compared to a party candidate- but if they are an amazing candidate then there are some means of getting the message out, I guess is what I'm saying.
Again in reality, maybe that can't happen as easily as the party candidates...

 

[S.L.F]

And I wasnt picking on one particular person here, I was simply saying that many people will vote against FF out of spite, some out of blind loyalty to other parties, some out of lack of understanding of FF's policies (if there are any at the moment) among other bad reasons to vote against FF...

And some who can see quite clearly that FF are behaving like a headless chicken, FF have done well out of the last 10 years because they got in just when the boom started. They were lucky.

Until we fix this mindset we will only ever stumble from mistake to mistake . . Learning from your mistakes isnt about voting for the opposite to the party that led you there, its about taking them on board and demanding better from all involved. What we demand, we will get, problem is that we are simply demanding a differant government (as opposed to a government that shows honesty, integrity and the peoples interest at heart. Does anybody think the next party will have that . . Not a chance . . So why are we accepting that this is just the way it will be . ..

Are you sure you aren't an FF politician because Biffo sure could use you to write his speeches.

What a load of twattle!

"Learning from your mistakes isnt about voting for the opposite to the party that led you there"

Are you saying FF brought us this current recession and now we shouldn't have a better govt.

 

[NorthDrum]

And some who can see quite clearly that FF are behaving like a headless chicken, FF have done well out of the last 10 years because they got in just when the boom started. They were lucky.



Are you sure you aren't an FF politician because Biffo sure could use you to write his speeches.

What a load of twattle!



Are you saying FF brought us this current recession and now we shouldn't have a better govt.

Im sure somebody else could explain my posts and how you misinterpreted them so wrong its not funny . .

I dont really see how anybody could see this as pushing an FF agenda, particularly if all parts of my post were read.

Im saying we need to demand more from our politicians, as a nation we are very slow to strike for whats good for this country (as opposed to striking for our own self interest).

 

[bamboozle]

Actually 5 reasons why i'll never vote FF
1- electronic Voting Machines €50m
2-Peepars Payroll system €100m plus
3-Thornton Hall purchased for €30m even though market value was €6m
4-Limerick drainage cost €70 million paid in compensation
5-the estimated 32 incremental pay rises Bertie got in his 10 years as Taoiseach

 

[cork]

So you're saying FF have nothing to do with the mess we're in now? That they were not hand in hand with developers, builders etc? That all that stuff that's come out in the tribunals is not an inditment (sp?) of some of their members?

FF got 30% at the last local elections.

During the housing frenzy - they were not in control of local authorities.

Actually 5 reasons why i'll never vote FF

The Ombama administation has sent stimulus cheques to the dead - What government makes no mistakes?

What political party is control of Limerick Corporation?

 

[cork]

[Until we fix this mindset we will only ever stumble from mistake to mistake . . Learning from your mistakes isnt about voting for the opposite to the party that led you there, its about taking them on board and demanding better from all involved. What we demand, we will get, problem is that we are simply demanding a differant government (as opposed to a government that shows honesty, integrity and the peoples interest at heart. Does anybody think the next party will have that . . Not a chance . . So why are we accepting that this is just the way it will be . .. /QUOTE]

FG and Labour have zero policicies to reform the public sector.

We have 114 local authories - How many does Labour or FG want?

I asked a FG canvassor the other night and he was clueless.

 

[S.L.F]

I almost choked when I read your post this morning

What's to misinterpret?

Any govt party that has had Ray Burke, Liam Lawlor, Beverly Cooper Flynne and Charlie Haughty himself in its ranks. and you want me to believe this

as opposed to a government that shows honesty, integrity and the peoples interest at heart.

I will admit whole heartedly that our way of precieving politicians could be changed for the better but if they were changed FF would never get into power again.

 

[Cayne]

[Until we fix this mindset we will only ever stumble from mistake to mistake . . Learning from your mistakes isnt about voting for the opposite to the party that led you there, its about taking them on board and demanding better from all involved. What we demand, we will get, problem is that we are simply demanding a differant government (as opposed to a government that shows honesty, integrity and the peoples interest at heart. Does anybody think the next party will have that . . Not a chance . . So why are we accepting that this is just the way it will be . .. /QUOTE]

FG and Labour have zero policicies to reform the public sector.

You obviously dont read a newspaper or listen to the news.

 

[liaconn]

FF got 30% at the last local elections.

During the housing frenzy - they were not in control of local authorities.


quote]

Please do not try and convince me that huge responsibility for the incredible rise in the property market does not lie at Fianna Fail's door. Liam Lawlor? Ray Burke?

 

[Locke]

I'm done with FF and I will never support the Party in election again. Too much abuse and incompetence in power.

 

[bamboozle]

[Until we fix this mindset we will only ever stumble from mistake to mistake . . Learning from your mistakes isnt about voting for the opposite to the party that led you there, its about taking them on board and demanding better from all involved. What we demand, we will get, problem is that we are simply demanding a differant government (as opposed to a government that shows honesty, integrity and the peoples interest at heart. Does anybody think the next party will have that . . Not a chance . . So why are we accepting that this is just the way it will be . .. /QUOTE]

FG and Labour have zero policicies to reform the public sector.

We have 114 local authories - How many does Labour or FG want?

I asked a FG canvassor the other night and he was clueless.

please follow link to see FG & Labour joint policy document on their 10 point Dail Reform....

[broken link removed]

 

[cork]

please follow link to see FG & Labour joint policy document on their 10 point Dail Reform....

They want to reduce the number of local authorities from 114 to ........how many?

FG and Labour would win a gold medal for sitting on the fence and waffling.

What a shower of po faced know alls.

Facts are FF only got 30% at the last local elections.

Local Authorities were controlled by the currant opposition partys.

FG also favoured cutting stamp duty which would have further fueled the property bubble.

Cowen resisted calls from Independant Newspapers and FG to cut stamp duty.

Enda Kenny with certain elements in the Irish media wanted to further fuel the hosing frenzy.