Wolf Tone's view on Conor Skehan's article on homelessness

Last year
21% of newly presenting homeless families in Dublin were non EU citizens
12% were from EU countries
67% were Irish born.

In the 2016 census, 12% of the population were recorded as being born outside Ireland.
 
Now this is one case I know of , he told me they are all doing it in xxxxxxxxx I won't name the area to degrade it but it's a less desirable area he said government are throwing houses at people .
Well that fits with the situation out there with regards to HAP...the Govt are giving people as much money as it takes to get the rental property and not present as homeless, Common sense, good governance and value for money have gone out the window
 
Last year
21% of newly presenting homeless families in Dublin were non EU citizens
12% were from EU countries
67% were Irish born.

In the 2016 census, 12% of the population were recorded as being born outside Ireland.

The more relevant comparison is the foreign-born population of Dublin.
 
a sizeable proportion of people are gaming the system to get houses. There are loads of stable families where the parents are not married where the mother claims to be a lone parent to get a house.

Can you back this up?
I would hazard a guess that yes, it occurs, but is so infrequent relative to actual homelessness, and unaffordable housing issues, that even if it not to occur, it would barely register a difference in the round.
That is not to ignore it, but rather to acknowledge in terms of implementing effectively actions and policies, it would be way down the list of priorities.
 
Talking to an Estate Agent today who was telling me that he has started to take on way more HAP tenants than usual in his letting business as they can get the rent, no matter the price. And they are allowed to top up now as well. But it's really distorting the market, not that she's upset!

A few of her HAP tenancies have even gone ahead and done home improvements to what were practically new apartments/houses even though the lease says you can't do that. But as the improvements are actually an addition to the home, they've let them away with it. One tenant put in new flooring, upstairs and down! On other put in new kitchen cabinets.
i suppose when the taxpayer is picking up the tab for your biggest expense, you've a fair bit of disposal cash yourself!

One other nugget they had for me was with regards to Cuckoo/Investment funds buying gaffs for rental. She sold one recently to such a fund in a rent zone and the house had previously being rented so the rent increase restrictions applied. Or so she thought.
The agent for the fund explained that they would buy the gaff and rent it to a local Authority for say, 10 years. that meant it didn't come under rent zone rules i.e. they could increase the rent by way more than 4% and there was no need to register with the PRTB.
The Local Authorities are actually harrassing funds to go out and buy more homes so they can then come in and rent them on long term deals. It's mad stuff. I don't know how any ordinary working single/couple can compete in that market when they are so clearly up against the Government, Local Authorities and International Investment Funds. I'd hate to be looking to buy or rent. And it's not going to get any better
 
Well I reported multiple abuses and to be honest I was better off I investigated it myself as it would nearly have taken less time. I compiled a detailed dossier in each case and they were factual and nothing done even though there was flagrant abuse of the system. Thats my experience. Never again
I've reported fraud a few times and nothing has been done. I think that DSP officials are, right;y, frightened of getting on the wrong side of the populist media and the far left populist politicians.
 
Can you back this up?
I would hazard a guess that yes, it occurs, but is so infrequent relative to actual homelessness, and unaffordable housing issues, that even if it not to occur, it would barely register a difference in the round.
That is not to ignore it, but rather to acknowledge in terms of implementing effectively actions and policies, it would be way down the list of priorities.
I'm personally aware of 6 cases over the last 4 years. I work with people who tell me about their brothers/sisters/cousins doing the same thing. I have no data on it, obviously as there is none, but speaking about 2 particular areas of North Dublin I would say it is the norm when financially viable for the father to buy a house and rent it to the mother.
One guy I work with has two young children and he and his partner and the children live with his partners mother in her 3 bedroom council house. He was laughed at and called a gob-daw (daw wasn't the second bit) in the canteen for not claiming to be homeless when he said that he wanted to buy his own house. The reaction was "What?! Why would you do that, you idiot!" (they didn't say idiot).
 
They stop renting with partner , move back home to parents house , go to local TD or whoever will listen , say they are homeless and a lone parent .

People who have a roof over their heads are not afforded hotel emergency accommodation.
In the main, it is families with children, quite often single parents.
In general, people afforded this emergency accommodation cannot access rooms until late evening and need to vacate by early morning. It is not a situation that anybody with any sort of reasoned mentality would desire to deliberately put themselves, and their children, through, on some baked up notion that it is a gateway to a 'forever' home.
 
I'm personally aware of 6 cases over the last 4 years. I work with people who tell me about their brothers/sisters/cousins doing the same thing. I have no data on it, obviously as there is none, but speaking about 2 particular areas of North Dublin I would say it is the norm when financially viable for the father to buy a house and rent it to the mother.
One guy I work with has two young children and he and his partner and the children live with his partners mother in her 3 bedroom council house. He was laughed at and called a gob-daw (daw wasn't the second bit) in the canteen for not claiming to be homeless when he said that he wanted to buy his own house. The reaction was "What?! Why would you do that, you idiot!" (they didn't say idiot).

A friend of mine spent 6 years in a two bed apartment with three kids saving for a deposit for a house they wanted in an area they wanted. (Ironically North Dublin as well). Eventually got the house in a new estate for over 500k. Within a couple of days, a family moved next door with the neighbour proudly saying that they are delighted with their new house because the council had them (three kids also) in three bed up to now. Neither adult in the house works. My friend and his wife gets up every morning and goes into work to pay the mortgage. They made sacrifices for 6 years of their childrens lives to be able to afford a house that they see being given to someone else. And what is the difference between two families? Now, people will just say this is just a story and it doesn't happen and people are entitled to a house and all the rest. I don't know one person who agrees with homelessness. I don't know one person that doesn't think the State should take steps to ensure there is affordable housing for EVERYBODY but we are living in la la land if we think it is sustainable that State finances are being used to buy €500k houses to give to social housing and expect working families who have worked their asses off to get the same thing to just accept it.

But apparently my friend can't give out because you are not allowed to criticise social housing because if you do, you are some right wing Nazi nut....
 
But apparently my friend can't give out because you are not allowed to criticise social housing because if you do, you are some right wing Nazi nut....
...what that means is that people get disillusioned and that's fertile ground for the nutters and and rightwing fringe.
I've said it before; the Public Sector are the guardians of democracy.
It is how they are seen to be delivering services for the people, using the people's money, that determines the legitimacy of the State in the eyes of the people.
When the Public Sector wastes the people's money they are not only causing old people to die on trolleys and children with special needs to never reach their potential but they are undermining democracy itself.
 
A friend of mine spent 6 years in a two bed apartment with three kids saving for a deposit for a house they wanted in an area they wanted. (Ironically North Dublin as well). Eventually got the house in a new estate for over 500k. Within a couple of days, a family moved next door with the neighbour proudly saying that they are delighted with their new house because the council had them (three kids also) in three bed up to now. Neither adult in the house works. My friend and his wife gets up every morning and goes into work to pay the mortgage. They made sacrifices for 6 years of their childrens lives to be able to afford a house that they see being given to someone else. And what is the difference between two families? Now, people will just say this is just a story and it doesn't happen and people are entitled to a house and all the rest. I don't know one person who agrees with homelessness. I don't know one person that doesn't think the State should take steps to ensure there is affordable housing for EVERYBODY but we are living in la la land if we think it is sustainable that State finances are being used to buy €500k houses to give to social housing and expect working families who have worked their asses off to get the same thing to just accept it.

But apparently my friend can't give out because you are not allowed to criticise social housing because if you do, you are some right wing Nazi nut....

Did they know when they were purchasing if houses in the development are council owned?

I would be equally miffed but this is a tricky one.
 
Did they know when they were purchasing if houses in the development are council owned?

I would be equally miffed but this is a tricky one.


No matter where you buy now, you know this will probably be the case but they probably thought houses going for over 500k would never be bought for the purpose of social housing. Like 500k of taxpayers money to house one family? From talking to him, he doesn't believe he was buying a house to live in a gated community but I know what himself and the wife went through to afford this place. The marriage nearly ended on more than one occasion but he convinced her that it would be worth it. She was ready to move out of Dublin and commute but he made her hang on. And then you see an identical house being given to another family..... What made one family deserve that while his family made huge sacrifices for years to get the same thing? He just feels really let down but knows he will just have to let it go. Finding it hard though.

And I know someone is going to come on here and say everyone deserves a house and all the rest which misses the point but I have to admit, I really did share his frustration.
 
a family moved next door with the neighbour proudly saying that they are delighted with their new house because the council had them (three kids also) in three bed up to now. Neither adult in the house works

Was a reason given as to why the council, already providing a family with three children a house, decided to move them to a €500k house?
I would think that unless there was some really valid reason (eg the other house in absolute dire condition) then this is a real waste of resources and makes no sense at all.
 
The Local Authorities are actually harrassing funds to go out and buy more homes so they can then come in and rent them on long term deals. It's mad stuff.

That's my experience of the LA's too. I spoke to them in two different counties. They also told me I could get over the 4% rule if I appealed to the RTB that my rent hadn't gone up in a long time.

My last tenant to join HAP, he has a car business and is a landlord. Yet he got HAP. I don't understand how he managed to do that. But I reckon his car repair business is undeclared as is the house.

That house has a flat at the side. I had a LA tenant there for year, someone I know for decades. He moved out and moved into a two bed brand new appartment that the LA gave to a friend of his who had been on the waiting list for years. And why did he move in there. The friend was heading off to South Africa for six months and needed someone to mind the place.

It is very clear to me HAP is driving up rents. And also clear that the councils are desparate for landlords.
 
Secondly, and in terms of the "why don't they move to somewhere cheaper like Leitrim" argument, one of the factors that people often overlook is the family network.

This is nonsense. Tell that to my brother who commutted weekly to Dublin. Tell that to me and the countless others who moved abraod, which is a heck of a lot further than Leitrim. Tell that to my sister who did two hour commutes. Tell that indeed to most of my family who live in different counties. The only family I have living in Dublin, D4 as it happens, they live there because they are wealthy. Oddly you think we should be entitled to live close to each other for family networds. But what you mean is those who get free housing get that choice. Nobody else does.
 
People who have a roof over their heads are not afforded hotel emergency accommodation.
In the main, it is families with children, quite often single parents.
In general, people afforded this emergency accommodation cannot access rooms until late evening and need to vacate by early morning. It is not a situation that anybody with any sort of reasoned mentality would desire to deliberately put themselves, and their children, through, on some baked up notion that it is a gateway to a 'forever' home.

Sorry but your wrong , people are taking advantage of the situation and they know the system better than anyone , they are experts . How many are actually single I just have to look around and see what's going on.
I'm not falling for it's a tiny percentage gaming the system it's huge.
I knew a guy working in the health board who told me once one person figures out something it becomes widespread like getting a letter to say your child has allergies to get wooden flooring and leather furniture , we are a soft touch of a Nation and the social welfare bill it's collosual because everyone's offended and feels they are entitled to a high standard of living despite not earning it.
The same people give out about our health Care been a mess , if we channelled the money in proper directions we would have a much better society .
 
Sorry but your wrong

Im not. Hotel emergency accommodation is by and large provided to families with nowhere to go.
You cant just kip out in your mums house, rock up to your TD and get given a hotel room. Then head back to mums and wait to be given a house. Dont you think the hotels are conscious of when their hotel rooms are being occupied or not?
If you don't have kids, and are homeless you will be given a space in a hostel, if available. You could be sharing with up to 12 others, some of them with serious illness or addictions.
If you decide to head back to mammies house, it will become apparent pretty quickly that you are not there, and your bed will be given up for someone who is genuinely homeless. You can spot these people regularly in any major city, occupying shop doors with sleeping bags.
And once your bed is given up, and you are not registering with services for the homeless, you are struck off as being no longer homeless. In which case you wont be getting any house at all - which is a pity, because in your example, the 'experts' at taking advantage of the system had a house to begin with.
 
Im not. Hotel emergency accommodation is by and large provided to families with nowhere to go.
You cant just kip out in your mums house, rock up to your TD and get given a hotel room. Then head back to mums and wait to be given a house. Dont you think the hotels are conscious of when their hotel rooms are being occupied or not?
If you don't have kids, and are homeless you will be given a space in a hostel, if available. You could be sharing with up to 12 others, some of them with serious illness or addictions.
If you decide to head back to mammies house, it will become apparent pretty quickly that you are not there, and your bed will be given up for someone who is genuinely homeless. You can spot these people regularly in any major city, occupying shop doors with sleeping bags.
And once your bed is given up, and you are not registering with services for the homeless, you are struck off as being no longer homeless. In which case you wont be getting any house at all - which is a pity, because in your example, the 'experts' at taking advantage of the system had a house to begin with.

Where are these families coming from that are ending up in hotels ? The guy I spoke to was living with his family renting a place , they heard of a way to get on the housing list quick which was for them to separate. He moved out , she stopped paying rent , evicted or left voluntarily I'm not sure of that , suitcases into mums house with kids , he went back to his parents house. She went to TD and social welfare and said they were homeless sleeping on floor in her mams house , they were giving a hotel room , they didn't stay in hotel but where told to show up at hotel to keep place on list to get a "forever home" they were housed not long after , single mother and kids . The partner moved straight in when they got a forever 4 bed home in Swords. They could afford the rent originally but followed a blueprint to get a free house.

Just to add I have no doubt there is a majority of genuine people out there that really do need help. I am annoyed because I am from a less desirable area originally my parents still live there , when I am there visiting or over in local pub I hear these stories and speak to people who made a living on gaming the system. I do believe the government have become wreckless in the desire to house everyone and that more and more non genuine people can see this desire and game the system . Just look at the insurance claim industry and how people jumped on that bandwagon .
 
Im not. Hotel emergency accommodation is by and large provided to families with nowhere to go.
You cant just kip out in your mums house, rock up to your TD and get given a hotel room. Then head back to mums and wait to be given a house. Dont you think the hotels are conscious of when their hotel rooms are being occupied or not?
If you don't have kids, and are homeless you will be given a space in a hostel, if available. You could be sharing with up to 12 others, some of them with serious illness or addictions.
If you decide to head back to mammies house, it will become apparent pretty quickly that you are not there, and your bed will be given up for someone who is genuinely homeless. You can spot these people regularly in any major city, occupying shop doors with sleeping bags.
And once your bed is given up, and you are not registering with services for the homeless, you are struck off as being no longer homeless. In which case you wont be getting any house at all - which is a pity, because in your example, the 'experts' at taking advantage of the system had a house to begin with.
You counter a post about families gaming the system by talking about homeless individuals...
 
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