Wolf Tone's view on Conor Skehan's article on homelessness

WolfeTone

Registered User
Messages
585
So which would you prefer?

50,000 homeless and stable or 10,000 homeless and rising?
But we dont have 50,000 homeless??
One is a hypothetical figure which has no basis in reality. The other is a real and factual figure with real consequences.
To answer your question, the hypothetical figure any day.

Or alternatively, 10,000 homeless and stable, or 10,000 homeless and rising?
 

Purple

Frequent Poster
Messages
10,317
And it encourages single women to have children because single women with children who are homeless go to the top of the list.
It encourages unmarried stable couples in long term relationships to claim that the mother is a lone parent so that she can get housing support. That can mean a council house or, even better, the father buys the house and the mother rents it from him and HAP's pays their mortgage.
 

WolfeTone

Registered User
Messages
585
Most of the people I know who bought their own home had to buy well outside the areas where they grew up and where they worked. They had to make compromises which often involved very long commutes and not seeing their young children.
I dont doubt the sentiment here. Im the first to say that working people have been fed a pup in the property boom of the Celtic Tiger.
But people who apply for social housing are also working people. Simply their incomes fall below thresholds set by government which entitles them apply should they wish - its not their fault. Nor is it the fault of higher earning workers who are being screwed on rents and left with little option to buy miles away.
It is the policies that drive the system to work the way that it does. And I have seen little that will change that anyday soon.
 

Brendan Burgess

Founder
Messages
42,199
- Homelessness is an issue by itself, increasing levels of homelessness is another issue, and one that the article has completely missed
Hi Wolfie

But you have said that increasing levels of homelessness is an issue.

It's not if it's coming from such a low base as we have in Ireland.

There are much higher homelessness rates in other countries but they are not rising.

So I am asking you again

Which would you prefer a low level of homelessness but increasing or a high level of homelessness but steady?

Brendan
 

WolfeTone

Registered User
Messages
585
Some are, some aren't.
Of course, but in the main, most social housing is occupied by at least one working person.
Other houses are occupied by pensioners, people with disabilities, etc.

Regardless of who you are, what you do, everyone needs a roof over their head.
 

Purple

Frequent Poster
Messages
10,317
Regardless of who you are, what you do, everyone needs a roof over their head.
Yep, and those who can provide their own should have to do so. Those who can but choose not to should be left on the streets. I would, literally, let them starve or die of exposure rather than see them get a cent that should go to those who cannot provide for themselves.
 

Purple

Frequent Poster
Messages
10,317
Of course, but in the main, most social housing is occupied by at least one working person.
Yep, and if we could improve the utilisation of our existing housing stock just a little bit we'd have no homelessness. We have enough social housing, we just don't utilise it for the greatest social good.
 

Peanuts20

Registered User
Messages
229
Child care and its cost is a big impact on people
But we dont have 50,000 homeless??
One is a hypothetical figure which has no basis in reality. The other is a real and factual figure with real consequences.
To answer your question, the hypothetical figure any day.

Or alternatively, 10,000 homeless and stable, or 10,000 homeless and rising?
In addition to the 10.5k, we should also factor in the numbers in womens refuges. In 2015 Tusla reported that almost 6k women and children could not be accomodated in these refuges but have not released figures since then. I think we can safely assume the true figure of people who have lost their home and have nowhere to live or have had to leave home for their own safety is in and around the 15k mark at a minimum.

Secondly, and in terms of the "why don't they move to somewhere cheaper like Leitrim" argument, one of the factors that people often overlook is the family network. Tens of thousands of families depend on inlaws/grandparents to mind kids whilst they work. Move far away and that often free network disappears and suddenly the cost of living goes up significantly. Not to mention that there may be limited job opps in those areas. And yes, I know someone will say that "they shouldn't have kids if they cant afford them" but peoples circumstances change and we should be glad people are having kids, it drives economic growth and how else will our health and pension costs get paid when we are all older?.

The arguement around single mothers is utterly pathetic and frankly back in the dark ages. There are 216k single parent families in Ireland, the vast majority headed up by a seperated or widowed parent. Over 60% of lone parents actually work. Again I wait for the comment "well I know someone who got pregnant to get a flat". Seriously, do you really know what the story was?? Did she tell you. ? Maybe there are some but to think that thousands of women behaved like that is seriously ignorant. I wonder how the 12% of single parent families headed by a man managed to "get a flat".
 

WolfeTone

Registered User
Messages
585
But you have said that increasing levels of homelessness is an issue.

It's not if it's coming from such a low base as we have in Ireland.
It is an issue, im perplexed that you would think it is not an issue.
Increasing levels of homelessness is an indicator that as a society, we are unable to deal effectively with the issue.

Which would you prefer a low level of homelessness but increasing or a high level of homelessness but steady?
Low level but increasing.
 

WolfeTone

Registered User
Messages
585
Yep, and if we could improve the utilisation of our existing housing stock just a little bit we'd have no homelessness. We have enough social housing, we just don't utilise it for the greatest social good.
Absolutely. Unfortunately, the manner in which utilisation can be improved has no real consensus, and adds to the problem.
But that said, it is a complex issue to resolve.
 

Brendan Burgess

Founder
Messages
42,199
Because of this comment:

Secondly, and in terms of the "why don't they move to somewhere cheaper like Leitrim" argument, one of the factors that people often overlook is the family network.
No one seems to have any problem with people who buy their own home commuting long distances, but if someone who wants social housing is offered it away from their own community, they say that they don't want to move away from their family network.

If they are not working, they can move to Leitrim and build up networks there. And they can visit their family in Dublin and vice versa.

It's about time people who buy their own homes, who work and who pay taxes get priority.

Brendan
 

Purple

Frequent Poster
Messages
10,317
The arguement around single mothers is utterly pathetic and frankly back in the dark ages. There are 216k single parent families in Ireland, the vast majority headed up by a seperated or widowed parent. Over 60% of lone parents actually work. Again I wait for the comment "well I know someone who got pregnant to get a flat". Seriously, do you really know what the story was?? Did she tell you. ? Maybe there are some but to think that thousands of women behaved like that is seriously ignorant. I wonder how the 12% of single parent families headed by a man managed to "get a flat".
As a single parent I can tell you that the Fathers don’t get a flat or at least they are at the bottom of the list.
I agree that women are not having children to “get a flat” but a sizeable proportion of people are gaming the system to get houses. There are loads of stable families where the parents are not married where the mother claims to be a lone parent to get a house. I’ve already outlined the scam where the father buys a house and the mother rents it from him with the State picking up the tab.
 

Fella

Frequent Poster
Messages
523
I have been told that there are some people supposedly homeless that have fabricated the situation .They stop renting with partner , move back home to parents house , go to local TD or whoever will listen , say they are homeless and a lone parent .
They then get a hotel which they never even sleep in just because if your in a hotel your likely to move quicker to a "forever home" then get forever home and partner moves in , happy life .
Now this is one story from a guy I know who told me the step by step process the worst part he said was moving back to his parents for a few months while they waited for a house. They got a 4 bed house is swords fully kitted out , the finish was lower than the houses that where not social houses but still it is a house that would be well out of reach of anyone on less than a substantial wage.
Now this is one case I know of , he told me they are all doing it in xxxxxxxxx I won't name the area to degrade it but it's a less desirable area he said government are throwing houses at people .

I forgot about this it's annoying but so be it , met a friend a few weeks ago who does maintenance in a hotel and I asked him are there many homeless living there , he confirmed exactly what the guy I know said , rooms are empty majority of time , I would love some stats on how many of hotel rooms are actually used .

Before people say , but but but .... Why don't you report the guy to social welfare etc , it's not my job to police the system I've a busy life but to any sane person it's clear to see what's going on with housing , it's a farce and we will look back at the money that was wasted housing wasters and there will be a realisation that the government where played for fools by media and vested interests.
 

gianni

Frequent Poster
Messages
605
Before people say , but but but .... Why don't you report the guy to social welfare etc , it's not my job to police the system I've a busy life but to any sane person it's clear to see what's going on with housing , it's a farce and we will look back at the money that was wasted housing wasters and there will be a realisation that the government where played for fools by media and vested interests.
If you are correct in your assertion of fraud, it would take you less time than it took you to write your post to report it:


I don't agree with your attitude that it's not "your job" to do so.
 

Dermot

Frequent Poster
Messages
1,054
Well I reported multiple abuses and to be honest I was better off I investigated it myself as it would nearly have taken less time. I compiled a detailed dossier in each case and they were factual and nothing done even though there was flagrant abuse of the system. Thats my experience. Never again
 

Fella

Frequent Poster
Messages
523
If you are correct in your assertion of fraud, it would take you less time than it took you to write your post to report it:


I don't agree with your attitude that it's not "your job" to do so.
Part of the reason I don't report is my brother has a neighbor whose partner is not supposed to be living there and the partner jumps over his wall (not welcomed) to access the house from rear .
He has been on to social welfare who call unannounced but they keep telling him it's very hard to prove he living there , he has been plagued by these neighbours on some sort of HAP for years nightmare couples with kids who have zero respect for neighbours or upkeep of house , parties all hours and nothing is been done
 
Top