No - Labour would never risk any offence to the unions
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If that's offending them then I think we're all in agreement, you just have a different definition of "offending" to most people.
If that's offending them then I think we're all in agreement, you just have a different definition of "offending" to most people.
No - Labour would never risk any offence to the unions
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Well your post speaks volumes if you regard this as an offence.No, they are partially funded by the trade unions. It’s not unreasonable to point this out.
I quite agree , but Mpsox never used the word " partially ".
Does it matter? "Labour are funded by trade unions" is still a true statement. I really don't think anyone actually thought that was the only source of funding.
Mpsox, I really like your post, very well thought out. Showing the contradictions in Irish voting patterns.
Just a few comments, why is the fact that your local TD doesn't have rental property a good thing? Also so what if he lives in a large bungalow or mansion?
You admire the tax cuts, but they were surely no good if the money was squandered and the only reason for them was to ensure FF in power.
Infrastructure? We now have one, one single solitary motorway. There is no reliable drinking water in many parts of the country, a bit of snow the country comes to a standstill. No proper flood defenses. And a Luas that does not meet up. Overcrowded classrooms still in prefabs. What about the planning of the ghost estates.
In relation to unions. I do believe that benchmarking and the bloated and overpaid civil service is because the unions dictated to FF? So I wouldn't be too worried about what Labour may or may not do. They (the unions) have received more than Labour would ever have given them.
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z107
Guest
Do you think the £1bn Bishopsgate bombing would have helped or hindered the peace process? How many £1bns do you think the UK government could afford?
I've read plenty of general comments on here and elsewhere about FF being in thrall to the property sector, living in big trophy houses and about some TDs having loads of property. My comment on this TD was that here was someone who does not seems to have got carried away by the Celtic Tiger
On the tax cuts, I remember moving back from London in 2000 to a payrise before tax and a pay cut after tax. I'm a firm believer that taxes should be kept to a minimum, the regret is not that the tax cuts were squandered, it's that state spending was not kept under control.
As for Labour and unions, at least Brian Lenihan is trying to do something about it. Does anyone on here really believe if Labour had the Minister for Finance portfolio that they would reduce public sector pay or would it be more wishy washy "reform" stuff
As for infrastructure, the Luas is great, ok, it doesn't meet up but 10 years ago it never even existed. As for Motorways, I suppose it depends on your definition of Motorways, personally speaking as someone who lives in Carlow and works in Tallaght, I love my new "Motorway" and am delighted that I will never ever ever have to drive through Castledermot again.
Planning was not always down to FF, plenty of local councilers across the political parties voted for some of the crazy building on flood plains that have occured in Ireland. Another one of those weird and wacky contradictions of Irish politics !!!
It's fair and correct comment that Labour are only partially funded by unions, however I do believe that the thrust of my comment about vested interests still holds
I agree , the Labour Party has strong ties with the Unions and FF have strong ties with builders , developers and Banks.
Isn't the problem that nobody knows where the political parties get their money from. What they declare is a fraction of what they spend on elcection campaigns so maybe we should try and get those facts before we start putting the parties into various brackets. Its a bit of a cliche to say Labour is all trade unions and FF are all greedy developers and bankers.
You are confusing the issues.
We would still be able to get money on the international markets without being gentle on the PS, without a high minimum wage, without high welfare payments, and without NAMA.
All you have to do is look at Greece. There is high demand for their bonds.
Again, you are confused. Greece has no problems attracting money.
I'm not sure you fully understand what you are talkng about, and you are mistakenly giving Lenihan praise for things which would have happened anyway, and are refusing to analyse his myriad of poor decisions/indecision.
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z107
Guest
I'd like to draw your attention to these two articles:
12 Jan 2009 Cowen rules out U-turn on pay for top officials
And
2 Feb 2010 [broken link removed]
Over a hundred years ago, Dublin had an electrified tram system, far more extensive than the current luas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_tramways
However, this, and a huge chunk of Ireland's rail system has been ripped up by successive governments.
Oh, and what's the story with broadband?
Mate, I do it for a living so I understand perfectly. Look at the price Greece is paying for it's debt. Yes, there was demand for its last issue when it offered huge yields. The day after this so called 'successful' issue, the bonds tanked.
The EU are now stepping in and telling Greece what steps they need to be taken to solve the problem and laying the groundwork for a bailout. Ireland would be in exactly the same boat if the Government hadn't done what it had done.
Do posters think that a FG/Labour government would have taken such (any?) decisive action last year?
I'm not sure that you can say that they would have preformed worse - it would be very difficult to perform worse than Brian Cowen, though Gordan Brown is doing his best to beat Cowen in the lack of leadership stakes. The Government did it out of pure necessity and did seem paralysed for a few months before making the hard decisions. They fudged hard decisions such as welfare, taxation and public sector reform which may have delivered much more savings that what they did do. They also fudged badly on the issue of holding bank executives responsible for their actions.
Hard to say. I guess all the parties recognised the need for action. Whether they would have had the political courage to carry out the cuts, I am not so sure.
I suppose it took FF months to even admit there was a problem and then look at all the U-turns after the first tough budget so they didn't exactly cover themselves in glory.
Sometimes, I wish we could take the best people from each party and let them run the Country!
Part of me is sorry that we'll never know. It would have been (and will be) interesting to see how Gilmore and Kenny make the transition from perennial 'Hurlers on the ditch' to actually running the country.
If the green party represent anything it is a taste of what will become of labour and FG.
Gilmore will have to switch from theatrical apoplexy (something he overindulges in solely as a result of extended time in opposition) to the resigned pragmatism of Gormley pretty quickly.
Come to think of it, now would be a great time for them to get in. At least they would have a 10 month reality check before delivering the same €3bn in budget cuts this december that FF are going to.
I don't think they would have any choice. I don't understand exactly how borrowing money from ECB works, but from what I can gather the EU are loaning us the money and it is my belief that behind the scenes they have told the government what they have to do in order to keep receiving this money for the next few years. If the government (regardless of which party was in) ignored the EU, it would make it more difficult to borrow.
I aggree with Sunny's post about the government being slow to recognise the problem. You must remember that as recently as Sep 2008, Cowen personally got involved to sign off on a 6% pay increase yet 4 months later it was decied they needed to public pay. And in Oct 2008 budget they increased social welfare payments by 3% when agian by the beginning of 2009 it was obvious these rates would need to be cut.