So 25k new mortgages in 2006, only 20-30% approx of their loan book declared as trackers by Merriman in annual reports & Merriman & Clarke at finance committee but these comments seem to sourced from Nyberg report. Now Tinney confirming that in fact the tracker loans went from 5% to 60% between 2005-2008. So between 30-40% of their whole loan book on undisclosed trackers. You could be looking at about 20-25k cases from EBS alone.
EBS What does an EBS "Variable Base Rate" mortgage mean?
- Thread starter tonymac
- Start date
haveaniceday
Registered User
- Messages
- 142
also It appears from the committee comments that EBS lending was at 5-6 billion in 2002 and from then to 2008 it went up to 16 billion ( wow & wtf)
The following Blog from 2010 gives some insight into who was running EBS at the time, what occurred and of course the great payoffs recieved when these people resigned - the same people who drove the organisation off the cliff - with eye watering pensions, which I am guessing they are recieving today?
http://crimson-observer.blogspot.ie/2010/06/ebs-75-facing-extinction-as-mutual.html
its funny reading how Alan Merriman positions himself as such the expert on tracker mortgages policy in ebs in 2015 when you look at what he did in EBS and how the organisation was basically destroyed during the years from 2002 to 2008 - 7 years to destroy what was a prudent organisation - 75 years in existence - created to serve members.
The following Blog from 2010 gives some insight into who was running EBS at the time, what occurred and of course the great payoffs recieved when these people resigned - the same people who drove the organisation off the cliff - with eye watering pensions, which I am guessing they are recieving today?
http://crimson-observer.blogspot.ie/2010/06/ebs-75-facing-extinction-as-mutual.html
its funny reading how Alan Merriman positions himself as such the expert on tracker mortgages policy in ebs in 2015 when you look at what he did in EBS and how the organisation was basically destroyed during the years from 2002 to 2008 - 7 years to destroy what was a prudent organisation - 75 years in existence - created to serve members.
Central Bank know about Project NOVA and they did nothing, they just issue couple of recomandations as 29 High Risk, 9 Low Risk and 4 recomandations AOB.
I’ve send an email to Mr Kissane and I request to review the details from Project NOVA.
Central Bank also know that EBS was the Market leader in ROI with 44% and now sudenly is becoming the Market leader with 100% SVR.
Central Bank also know that EBS was selling Fix & Trackers rates otherwise you could not be the Market leader with SVR when the Tracker was the King in that time frame.
What are they waiting for?
This is why : 1.6 bilion I could be wrong, definately is more than that.
If they have 25000 customers in 2006 plus the increase in Tracker Mortgages fro 5% to 60%, we are talking about 3.4 bilion Ladies & Gentelman.
That, will be enough to colaps the economy including ECB (they will print more € probably).
I believed Central Bank deliberatly skip EBS because they know where the path will end.
Profesor N, with all respect I think it was searching for Tracker description in EBS documents, he did not know that Tracker is Variable Base in EBS system.
Of course he found very little evidence.
It was searching after the over night tranzition from EBS Tracker to AIB SVR.
They need to bring EBS at the table and to be questioned by Mr Kissane not by the Central Bank.
I think we should post in a Național newsppaper asking for EBS Variable Base customers to come forward and share their story of events.
They shoul call for a normal office person or branch manager who use to sell Mortgages between 2004 to 2008, thats the way to find the truth along with all the prof we currently have.
Every EBS branch & subsidieries managers should be questioned.
CEO’s ? They will never tell you the truth.
CEO’s job is to make pozitive coments about the way their business is performing resulting in “increase share price”.
Or as mention by EBS CEO “Thanks to me & Project NOVA I made EBS the mortgage Market leader with Tracker Rates (past coments) and now the same, thanks to me “ I save EBS because it was madness with tracker rate “.
Unfortunetly, he realised that to late in 2008.
Drasticly for us when he realised the damaged he transfer the customers to SVR, just like that.
Central Bank and FSO this is the wake up call for those instituions to do the wright think.
I believed if I read the EBS CEO coments to my kids, they will laugh and they will asked me if this is real or it is just a joke?
Customer relation was still with EBS but EBS was influenced or forced by the vulture funds on how high to place and keep the Variable Base/Tracker rates up to transforming them in SVR.
Make sense, if the vulture funds have the majority of the pool mortgages then the CEO was dancing on the vulture funds melody.
haveaniceday
Registered User
- Messages
- 142
just wondering would I actually know if my mortgage has been bundled up and sold onto a fund?
In 2015 Merriman confirmed at the finance committee that they really pushed fixed rates but didn’t sell many trackers (see image).
In 2007 45% of new mortgage customers started on a fixed rate so this is the cohort that make up the bulk of the 60% of trackers that Tinney references.
It’s unfortunate that Pearse Doherty didn’t interview Merriman as he interviewed Tinney later that day and i’m sure he would have noticed the huge discrepancy in what each were reporting i.e. Merriman saying very few trackers in EBS & Tinney saying 60%.
In 2007 45% of new mortgage customers started on a fixed rate so this is the cohort that make up the bulk of the 60% of trackers that Tinney references.
It’s unfortunate that Pearse Doherty didn’t interview Merriman as he interviewed Tinney later that day and i’m sure he would have noticed the huge discrepancy in what each were reporting i.e. Merriman saying very few trackers in EBS & Tinney saying 60%.
Attachments
I’ve attached EBS Head of Membership Dara Deering’s quotes from an interview with Charlie Weston in February 2008 (thanks to Haveaniceday for sourcing
).
Deering states that “half of existing mortgages (in other banks) are standard variable rates” and she feels that rival banks are using “standard variable rates as a lever of profitability.”
If we consider these quotes and their timing (2008) it would therefore be reasonable to expect that SVR’s would at the very least constitute less than 50% of EBS’ mortgage loan book at that time. I’ve looked at their annual reports from 2007 to 2008 to see the % of SVR’s on their loan book and I’ve attached images; if we do assume that the underlying variable interest rate basis on fixed rate loans is SVR than between 70-75% of their new customers either were or will be on standard variable rates during that period.
This is obviously at odds with what Deering is quoting in Charlie Weston’s 2008 interview ...unless of course the underlying interest rate basis for the fixed term loans is not SVR but a tracker rate i.e. fixed to variable base. As such SVR’s would then constitute between 30-45% of EBS’ new mortgage customers which is more in line with what Deering is quoting.
All of the evidence on this thread leads to one unequivocal conclusion: tracker rates were heavily promoted and sold by EBS between 2004-2008 (more than 60% of loan book) and a large portion of those trackers are variable base rate loans i.e. ECB Base + 1.25%.
).Deering states that “half of existing mortgages (in other banks) are standard variable rates” and she feels that rival banks are using “standard variable rates as a lever of profitability.”
If we consider these quotes and their timing (2008) it would therefore be reasonable to expect that SVR’s would at the very least constitute less than 50% of EBS’ mortgage loan book at that time. I’ve looked at their annual reports from 2007 to 2008 to see the % of SVR’s on their loan book and I’ve attached images; if we do assume that the underlying variable interest rate basis on fixed rate loans is SVR than between 70-75% of their new customers either were or will be on standard variable rates during that period.
This is obviously at odds with what Deering is quoting in Charlie Weston’s 2008 interview ...unless of course the underlying interest rate basis for the fixed term loans is not SVR but a tracker rate i.e. fixed to variable base. As such SVR’s would then constitute between 30-45% of EBS’ new mortgage customers which is more in line with what Deering is quoting.
All of the evidence on this thread leads to one unequivocal conclusion: tracker rates were heavily promoted and sold by EBS between 2004-2008 (more than 60% of loan book) and a large portion of those trackers are variable base rate loans i.e. ECB Base + 1.25%.
Attachments
Last edited:
IdesofMarch
Registered User
- Messages
- 278
I’ve attached EBS Head of Membership Dara Deering’s quotes from an interview with Charlie Weston in February 2008 (thanks to Haveaniceday for sourcing
Deering states that “half of existing mortgages (in other banks) are standard variable rates” and she feels that rival banks are using “standard variable rates as a lever of profitability.”
If we consider these quotes and their timing (2008) it would therefore be reasonable to expect that SVR’s would at the very least constitute less than 50% of EBS’ mortgage loan book at that time. I’ve looked at their annual reports from 2007 to 2008 to see the % of SVR’s on their loan book and I’ve attached images; if we do assume that the underlying variable interest rate basis on fixed rate loans is SVR than between 70-75% of their new customers either were or will be on standard variable rates during that period.
This is obviously at odds with what Deering is quoting in Charlie Weston’s 2008 interview ...unless of course the underlying interest rate basis for the fixed term loans is not SVR but a tracker rate i.e. fixed to variable base. As such SVR’s would then constitute between 30-45% of EBS’ new mortgage customers which is more in line with what Deering is quoting.
All of the evidence on this thread leads to one unequivocal conclusion: tracker rates were heavily promoted and sold by EBS between 2004-2008 (more than 60% of loan book) and a large portion of those trackers are variable base rate loans i.e. ECB Base + 1.25%.
Haveaniceday and yourself should compile a small dossier of the evidence, as outlined, that support your contention in relation to variable base rate and submit it in writing to the CBI (preferably by handing it in, in person, to Bernard Sheridan or Derval Rowland). This dossier would be examined, this I can state categorically and might give the CBI an insight into the legitimate expectations of borrowers with respect to what they were contracting into at the time of contracting.
Last edited:
The politicians and the Central Bank know about this issue and are likely deeply concerned about the consequences for AIB in particular; I e-mailed the Central Bank about it years ago and I’ve more recently e-mailed politicians about it too including referencing this thread. I encourage others affected to contact Oireachtas Finance Committee members as stated already.
I do see it as the politicians job to bring EBS/AIB into line at the next finance committee meeting and following that ensure that EBS Variable Base customers, no matter how many, are redressed and placed back on their rightful tracker rate.
EbsLoannotrafor
Registered User
- Messages
- 82
Very well said . A concerted effort to finance committee members is needed , so they are aware of the issues before Ebs/now Aib appear . I wrote to Aib CEO , but received no reply . I also asked that the Ebs mortgage person in local branch make him aware of the issue that seems to me to be at variance to other Aib ( original customers redress). No update on this , the lack of professionalism is staggering really . You would imagine that the mortgage person would confirm they had relayed my concerns and give feedback / response but nothing . I suspect nothing was done as they literally don’t want their names in the chain .
But hopefully the finance committee will restore faith !! and initiate answers , which in a democracy is the function of the committee . If it does I will have the utmost respect for those involved and will not forget come election time . .
But hopefully the finance committee will restore faith !! and initiate answers , which in a democracy is the function of the committee . If it does I will have the utmost respect for those involved and will not forget come election time . .
IdesofMarch
Registered User
- Messages
- 278
Any update, did anyone send documentation/letters to the Finance Committee regarding the EBS variable base rate yet?
I’ve e-mailed politicians on committee. FF & SF members seem more vocal about tracker scandal yet they have all been relatively quiet on EBS despite the systemic problems touched on in this thread and other mainstream media over the last 10-15 years or so.
There is clearly a lack of clarity around the actual number of trackers that are on EBS’ books (25% or 60%+) with differing accounts highlighted on this thread; for arguments sake Merriman/Clarke claiming 25% while 2005 board meeting minutes confirmed by Tinney in 2015, and McGovern & Deering all directly or indirectly supporting the claim that trackers made up the vast majority of EBS’ loan book (60%+)...but they’ve now magically transformed into SVR’s!! Surely the politicians have seen this discrepancy in reporting from the different sources and are wondering what is the truth?
It has to be remembered that it was the FG/Labour coalition who oversaw the AIB/EBS takeover deal in 2011. Was there a thorough enough due dilligence completed to see that EBS was possibly a residential version of Anglo? Surely AIB were aware of this specific EBS variable base problem and did they communicate that to the govt at time? Lots of questions to be asked by opposition politicians and to be answered by FG.
FF have said they would like EBS to eventually be a competitor of a AIB & BOI yet they must know the potential costs involved in redress of variable base customers would mean EBS could go to the wall scuppering any chance of the organisation being setup as a competitor to AIB or BOI.
I’m not doubting that the likes of Michael McGrath, John McGuinness & Pearse Doherty genuinely care for affected customers, however it’s likely that they will also see this a political stick to beat FG with.
Hi all, just wish to let ye know i have already emailed michael mcgrath and have now sent peter burke of FG the same email as he is a TD for Longford - Westmeath which is my partners constituency who i wrote the first piece on this thread on behalf of. Hope people are still doing the same as we need answers on this issue.
Would love to hear if anyone with the terminoligy, "variable base rate" has received a letter from.EBS as i was told wait until the end of march to see what happens when i rang their helpline, its now march 25th and march has 6 days left so not feeling toko confident, never was to be honest. To start ill be ringing their helpline again after easter monday making enquiries about what the story is. If anyone knows when EBS are appearing in front of the finance committee please let this thread know so that well be able to see if the politicians weve been emailing do what weve been asking them to do and giving them a good grilling. If as i also suspect they do nothing or let them off the hook the question then is what do we do then. Sounds like Padraig Kissane needs to be contacted and maybe he'll tell us what if anything we can do here. If anyones already been on to him please let us know if hes giving us any chance against the most ambiguous bank of the lot.
Latest correspondence I received from EBS tracker review dept is that their review of my account is “progressing” but it will take a few more months before they can issue a final response letter. They actually issued another final response letter in July 2017 and told me to go to the ombudsman.
In that recent correspondence they admit that their letters must be “frustrating.” They also suggest I go to the ombudsman (again!!) even though they haven’t given a final response to the latest letter & accompanying evidence that my advisor sent them. I think they just want this issue to move on from the Central Bank Review stage where larger cohorts will be redressed and not just individual cases as might be the case with ombudsman. I’d imagine that if i’m redressed at this central bank review stage than many more accounts will need to be redressed.
I also know EBS directors are not replying to calls to attend the oireachtas committee. Political pressure to get them in to that committee is still required as that’s where everything will be exposed.
In that recent correspondence they admit that their letters must be “frustrating.” They also suggest I go to the ombudsman (again!!) even though they haven’t given a final response to the latest letter & accompanying evidence that my advisor sent them. I think they just want this issue to move on from the Central Bank Review stage where larger cohorts will be redressed and not just individual cases as might be the case with ombudsman. I’d imagine that if i’m redressed at this central bank review stage than many more accounts will need to be redressed.
I also know EBS directors are not replying to calls to attend the oireachtas committee. Political pressure to get them in to that committee is still required as that’s where everything will be exposed.
Last edited:
EbsLoannotrafor
Registered User
- Messages
- 82
That is really annoying , another bank are offering me good rate and cash back on switching but that offers ends in June , are they doing that on purpose ?
IdesofMarch
Registered User
- Messages
- 278
No, that would require strategic decision making, something EBS are well short of.