What about men?

Discussion in 'Letting Off Steam' started by Vanilla, Feb 1, 2018.

  1. michaelm

    michaelm Frequent Poster

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    While I wouldn't be the biggest fan of Germaine Greer I thought this #metoo related article was interesting https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/jan/23/germaine-greer-criticises-whingeing-metoo-movement
    I hate that ad, although I hate (and mute) pretty much all ads (except drum playing gorillas).
     
  2. Purple

    Purple Frequent Poster

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    The misuse of statistics in this debate generally is annoying.
    The gender pay gap issue is a good example but so is the assertion by some men's groups that spending on Breast Cancer far outstrips the spend on Prostate Cancer. While that is true and while more men die of Prostate Cancer than women die of Breast Cancer the big difference is the age profile of those who die; breast cancer kills women of all ages whereas the vast majority of men who die from prostate cancer are over the age of 85. Therefore it is reasonable to spend much more on awareness and research relating to breast cancer.
    So, all the facts are required before anybody starts throwing statistics around.
     
  3. odyssey06

    odyssey06 Frequent Poster

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    A football manager once said that ... "Statistics are like miniskirts: they give you good ideas but hide the important things."

    He'd probably get in trouble for saying it in these times though.
     
  4. Purple

    Purple Frequent Poster

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    I agree with some of that but the line that stood out was "Greer also spoke of her regret that the movement was failing to address the abuse of minority women in ordinary jobs".
    If you really want to see powerless women who are in very vulnerable positions then look at the waitresses who effectively work for tips in restaurants in most States in the USA. They get groped by customers but can't say anything because they won't get a tip and tips make up most of their income. They are casual employees with little protection so they are at the mercy of their employers are well. "Metoo" would be better directed at seeking to protect hundreds of thousands of women and minorities who have to keep quiet to keep a roof over their head rather than a tiny minority who are already relatively rich and powerful.
     
  5. odyssey06

    odyssey06 Frequent Poster

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    I wouldn't say I am a fan of Germaine Greer, in that I don't agree with a lot of what she says. But I react to what she says, she makes a point, her position is clear, she doesn't sit on the fence and it's up to you to agree or disagree, accept or reject what she has said. She can dish out verbal volleys and doesn't turn into a snowflake when verbal volleys are hurled at her. I guess that means respect?

    Modern ads... it's got to the stage where I'm starting to hate the people who make ads, they are now a source of misery, or at least 99%.
    And they wonder where everybody who can skips through them with their remote.
    The only ones that are tolerable are short, snappy and to the point, rather than these indirect mini-movies that could be for anything.
     
  6. michaelm

    michaelm Frequent Poster

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    odyssey06 likes this.
  7. Betsy Og

    Betsy Og Frequent Poster

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    Great youtube video.
     
  8. Purple

    Purple Frequent Poster

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    I did wonder why none of the powerful Hollywood A-list female actors who command tens of millions per movie stayed silent, thereby condemning the next generation of young female actors to the same disgusting and criminal behaviour.
     
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  9. Purple

    Purple Frequent Poster

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    Agreed. I like her though i don't always agree with her.
     
  10. joe sod

    joe sod Frequent Poster

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    What about the unseen men that work in anti social jobs at night , laying tar on roads at night to reduce traffic disruption, with high vis jackets but nobody ever thinks about them or looks at them. The guys up to their knees in mud in this awful weather doing the groundworks for house building, nobody gives them a second thought.
     
  11. Purple

    Purple Frequent Poster

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    They are getting paid by the hour and generally have better terms and conditions. They certainly aren’t being sexually harassed by their employer or customers.
     
  12. joe sod

    joe sod Frequent Poster

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    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
    Better terms and conditions !!, have you ever worked on a building site in winter, guys covered in mud, despite all the equipment there is still a lot of dirty unpleasant work, also you have foreman pushing the guys to get the job done under pressure from the financiers. When your toilet is blocked a someone has to fix that but nobody ever thinks about these guys, that's the point.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
  13. odyssey06

    odyssey06 Frequent Poster

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    To followon from joe sod's point ... that if we have a male patriarchy it doesnt extend down to the lads with the dirty and dangerous lowpaid jobs.

    ps I dont think we have one, I think we have an elite. And there are women in that elite.
     
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  14. Purple

    Purple Frequent Poster

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    I agree.
     
  15. Purple

    Purple Frequent Poster

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    It's very hard to find an equivalent case to this one where a woman inflicted that sort of damage to a man. It's also incredible to believe that he only got 4 years in prison.
    No "whataboutism" about this and it is far from an isolated case.
     
  16. odyssey06

    odyssey06 Frequent Poster

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    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
    Is the article just written badly... it's not clear to me what sentence was for what offence.
    "In March 2017, he was sentenced to four years — with two suspended — for threatening to kill another ex girlfriend and her partner in 2013. "
    What was the sentence for the actual assault?
    Actually, the sentence for the assault is in a photo byline... "three and a half years with 12 months suspended for assaulting her..."

    I'm not trying to go down the whataboutism route, just that in general the sentences handed out by the courts for assault are pathetic. I think this more reflects that than any gender bias.
    The relevant comparison is if a man convicted of similar assault of another man of youth would get a different sentence.

    I think that the fact that it wasn't a once off incident and a protection order was violated should have led to a longer sentence too i.e. there should have been multiple convictions, and they should have run consecutively. But the courts don't seem to think that way.

    It's the same if a member of the emergency services is assaulted and you hear their unions saying they want new laws just for them... well if a citizen, regardless of uniform, is assaulted and they think the law isn't strong enough then they should call for protection for all citizens.

    Ps I wonder if a US style plea bargain of copping a guilty plea to common assault v trial for higher charge could be a factor also.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
  17. Purple

    Purple Frequent Poster

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    odyssey06, In my opinion when the assailant is a partner or former partner the sentence should be increased.
     
  18. Vanessa

    Vanessa Frequent Poster

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    If the feminists think they are getting a raw deal perhaps they should look at a few of their feminist colleagues. I am aware of many situations where au pairs, cleaners, housekeepers are being exploited by professional women who expect them to work long hours for less than minimum wage, treat them like dirt and then go off to their own workplace and whinge about howmentreat women
     
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  19. Purple

    Purple Frequent Poster

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    Is every man a potential rapist?
    Well according to this author yes, they are.
    Why is this sort of bigotry, masquerading as pseudo-science, still acceptable?
    It's not that long ago the same sort of thing was being written about black people.
     
    becky likes this.