Waiting long on qualification on the title

R

Roks200

Registered User
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5
Greetings,

First time posting here but been following for a while. I am in the process of buying a second hand property and the transaction is in its final phase, but - it has come to a standstill due to outstanding issues which relates to the fact that the property is not taken in charge by the local authority. It has been 3 months since I paid my booking deposit and the seller is getting increasingly anxious, saying that they're running out of patience and are looking to renegotiate with someone else. I can't help but to blame PTSB for taking so long to process my solicitor's enquiry. My question is, how likely is the bank to refuse to fund this purchase(bearing in mind that the building company is still in business and will respond to urgent matters, should it be necessary)?

Thanks in advance,
 
Roks200 said:
outstanding issues which relates to the fact that the property is not taken in charge by the local authority.
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I presume you mean the development has not been taken in charge by the LA, as in responsibility for maintaining public spaces and infrastructure. If that is the case, how long ago was the house built and who is maintaining those areas now? If the plan was for the LA to take over management, what has held that up?

Roks200 said:
I can't help but to blame PTSB for taking so long to process my solicitor's enquiry.
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What query did your solicitor submit to them?
 
Leo said:
I presume you mean the development has not been taken in charge by the LA, as in responsibility for maintaining public spaces and infrastructure. If that is the case, how long ago was the house built and who is maintaining those areas now? If the plan was for the LA to take over management, what has held that up?



What query did your solicitor submit to them?
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First of all, thank you for taking interest in my post.

The estate has been built in early 2000's, I believe in 2004. The outstanding issue is the fact that the property has not been taken in charge by the La and the fact that the bond has expired a while ago. My solicitor explained to me that the property has not been taken in charge due to the fact that the house owners of the estate have not been exerting any kind of pressure either on the LA and the building company, presumably they are not aware of the seriousness of their situation.

My solicitor is now painstakingly chasing PTSB to review his draft certificate on Title - to no avail.


“Title has been investigated and reveals that, as per letter dated 25/01/2021 delivered by X Solicitors for the Borrower to the Bank, the roads and services within the development at
X, Co Cavan have not yet been taken in charge by Cavan County Council due to
the fact that the Insurance Bond submitted in compliance with the Planning Permission Condition
No 2 of PL 03/760 has expired on the 30th October 2011 and has not been renewed; albeit that a
Road Bond of €6,345 remains in place"
 
To further answer your question, the green areas within the estate is managed by a private company and everyone is paying 50 euro annually. However, no one is actually obliged to pay, it is voluntary.
 
Roks200 said:
The estate has been built in early 2000's, I believe in 2004. The outstanding issue is the fact that the property has not been taken in charge by the La and the fact that the bond has expired a while ago.
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OK, it's the common/ public areas of the development that would be taken in charge, not the property you are looking to purchase.

Roks200 said:
My solicitor is now painstakingly chasing PTSB to review his draft certificate on Title - to no avail.
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I take it the aim here is to get PTSB to agree to allow you to proceed without the issue of taking in charge being resolved?

From the lender's perspective, there is a risk here. If they allow you to proceed and close the sale and the common areas are never taken in charge, this will devalue your property as lack of maintenance and repair becomes an issue. Some local authorities can be sticky about taking developments into charge, you could end up having to try form a management company with the other owners to take on maintenance yourselves.
 
Leo said:
OK, it's the common/ public areas of the development that would be taken in charge, not the property you are looking to purchase.



I take it the aim here is to get PTSB to agree to allow you to proceed without the issue of taking in charge being resolved?

From the lender's perspective, there is a risk here. If they allow you to proceed and close the sale and the common areas are never taken in charge, this will devalue your property as lack of maintenance and repair becomes an issue. Some local authorities can be sticky about taking developments into charge, you could end up having to try form a management company with the other owners to take on maintenance yourselves.
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Yes, that's exactly what the aim is.


“Title has been investigated and reveals that, as per letter dated 25/01/2021 delivered by X Solicitors for the Borrower to the Bank, the roads and services within the development at
X, Co Cavan have not yet been taken in charge by Cavan County Council due to
the fact that the Insurance Bond submitted in compliance with the Planning Permission Condition
No 2 of PL 03/760 has expired on the 30th October 2011 and has not been renewed; albeit that a
Road Bond of €6,345 remains in place"

Thank you for trying to clarify this for me. This is, unfortunately, the reality. The agency claims, however, that they don't see whats the problem is as they sold many such properties. However, I'm reluctant to proceed with exchange of contracts and so is my solicitor.
 
The agency will always say whatever is required to close the sale, that's all they're interested in.

Your solicitor's role is to protect your interests, everyone else you're dealing with here has a different agenda.

You're not the first on here with this issue.
 
Has anyone else had to go back to lender regarding qualification of title? Any ideas of the turnaround - are we talking days / weeks / months? A couple of extremely minor items were picked up by engineer so my solicitor may need to qualify the title (with Avant) .

Would really like to hear back from anyone that has gone through this as I'm concerned that it could push everything out for the house I'm purchasing.. Stressed is not the word :(

Any feedback (good or bad) appreciated
 
Gordon Gekko said:
Ours was resolved in two days.
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Oh wow that's incredibly fast ! My solicitor is just writing to seller's solicitor (again) today to try find out if seller's can give a declaration that planning items (two v minor issues) are 7 years or older , however sellers' may not be able to confirm this as in the house less than 7 years.. I think the more information that we can give the better but hopefully this doesn't slow everything down too much.. nerves are kicking in now big time.
Honestly if I could get this sorted out within a week or so it would be incredible..

I meant to ask solicitor if we need to get the qualification sorted first THEN request loan pack or if this can happen in parallel, but I guess one step at a time. Just don't want everything dragging out for too long.
 
I thought it was the biggest issue in the world TBH and we were devastated.

But our solicitor reassured us that it would be fine and it was.

Seems to be common enough.
 
Lenders are also concerned that the estate might be what we now know as a 'ghost' estate, where the builder has gone bust and there are many unfinished and unoccupied finished/semi finished houses. On the other hand, the estate may be finished and everything done to spec, but LA just haven't got round to it.
 
dubdub123 said:
Oh wow that's incredibly fast ! My solicitor is just writing to seller's solicitor (again) today to try find out if seller's can give a declaration that planning items (two v minor issues) are 7 years or older , however sellers' may not be able to confirm this as in the house less than 7 years.. I think the more information that we can give the better but hopefully this doesn't slow everything down too much.. nerves are kicking in now big time.
Honestly if I could get this sorted out within a week or so it would be incredible..

I meant to ask solicitor if we need to get the qualification sorted first THEN request loan pack or if this can happen in parallel, but I guess one step at a time. Just don't want everything dragging out for too long.
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I'm in a similar situation with Avant. Would you be able to post when you get sorted with the request for qualification and let me know how long it took?
 
Ariel7 said:
I'm in a similar situation with Avant. Would you be able to post when you get sorted with the request for qualification and let me know how long it took?
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Avant sent back a generic letter to my solicitor stating that they want declaration of 7 year rule OR retention. We have gone back to them again on this and awaiting a response. Stressful particularly as its such a minor thing which can be reverted.
 
dubdub123 said:
Avant sent back a generic letter to my solicitor stating that they want declaration of 7 year rule OR retention. We have gone back to them again on this and awaiting a response. Stressful particularly as its such a minor thing which can be reverted.
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Thanks for that. I expect we'll get the same thing back so. Who provides the declaration of 7 year rule, do you know?
 
Ariel7 said:
Thanks for that. I expect we'll get the same thing back so. Who provides the declaration of 7 year rule, do you know?
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It's normally the seller of the property. In our case the seller isn't there the 7 years and seems they don't have a declaration from the time they purchased the house. (modifications were made before they bought)

I'm following up with another engineer now to see if a cert of exemption ( Opinion of Compliance) can be provided in relation to one of the items.
 
In our case we are switching mortgage lenders from Ulster to Avant...Ulster gave a qualification when we bought the house 5 years ago, but I didn't know that at the time, our solicitor must have just requested it without going into detail with us. The seller had added on a porch several years before selling and it slightly exceeded the 4 metres squared that you are allowed to add on without needing to obtain planning permission. Anyway, we never did anything about it (and in fact completely forgot about it) and now that we want to switch it has cropped up as an issue again. We have asked our solicitor to request a qualification of title, if we need to we can provide a declaration I'm sure or else go the retention route if all else fails...we will need to sort that out anyway, just to make sure things are right for the future, but it would delay things considerably with the switch if we have to do it now and I don't want to spend any longer on the Ulster variable rate than I have to.

It's terrible that in your case it all falls on you as the buyer. You would imagine it would be for the seller to sort, but I suppose the current market takes the pressure off them in that respect. One thing our solicitor did tell us 5 years ago was that the porch would be an issue for us if we wanted to sell. Because we had no intention of doing so, we put it out of our heads.
 
Ariel7 said:
In our case we are switching mortgage lenders from Ulster to Avant...Ulster gave a qualification when we bought the house 5 years ago, but I didn't know that at the time, our solicitor must have just requested it without going into detail with us. The seller had added on a porch several years before selling and it slightly exceeded the 4 metres squared that you are allowed to add on without needing to obtain planning permission. Anyway, we never did anything about it (and in fact completely forgot about it) and now that we want to switch it has cropped up as an issue again. We have asked our solicitor to request a qualification of title, if we need to we can provide a declaration I'm sure or else go the retention route if all else fails...we will need to sort that out anyway, just to make sure things are right for the future, but it would delay things considerably with the switch if we have to do it now and I don't want to spend any longer on the Ulster variable rate than I have to.

It's terrible that in your case it all falls on you as the buyer. You would imagine it would be for the seller to sort, but I suppose the current market takes the pressure off them in that respect. One thing our solicitor did tell us 5 years ago was that the porch would be an issue for us if we wanted to sell. Because we had no intention of doing so, we put it out of our heads.
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we're still waiting to hear back from Avant on this issue but I have setup an engineer to go out to the property. The retention route at the best of times can take months and I can imagine at the present time it certainly wouldn't be accelerated. We absolutely did not want to go that route particularly for such minor issues.
My own solicitor said that other lenders she has dealt with would have accepted the qualification without issue. It's interesting to hear your experience between Ulster bank and Avant.
Really it should be the seller but at this stage we just want everything to go through as quickly as possible. I'm paying for storage and other monthly fees at the moment and really keen to get into the house now after a few weeks of staying with family.
If I get any update from Avant, I will post here for information. Best of luck .
 
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