Ulster Bank's proposal to deal with offset mortgages

Monbretia said:
Came in the post with details of a bank account to do a transfer to quoting mortgage number as reference, I'll have to ring as while the amount owing is obvious I can't set up a new payee on that account at this stage, card reader long gone, but surely I should be able to just transfer from facility to mortgage to clear it. I could always do a transfer from another bank but that's just messing when it's in the current account. Will try ring tomorrow and see what happens!
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Well good luck! Not every day that you clear off a mortgage, you should celebrate :)

Have been having second thoughts about clearing my own mortgage. I got a good GWP from them that makes it possible to pay off the mortgage entirely. But it would still eat up a chunk of my savings. I was half thinking of lodging the GWP to my facility account and recalculating the repayment over the remaining term and try out the Pay and Redraw approach for a while. The repayment would be next to nothing and I’d still have access to a line of credit for the next 17 years.

Still have a couple of months to decide so we’ll see.
 
Monbretia said:
Came in the post with details of a bank account to do a transfer to quoting mortgage number as reference, I'll have to ring as while the amount owing is obvious I can't set up a new payee on that account at this stage, card reader long gone, but surely I should be able to just transfer from facility to mortgage to clear it. I could always do a transfer from another bank but that's just messing when it's in the current account. Will try ring tomorrow and see what happens!
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But even if you had a card reader they limit your daily transaction to 25K on these accounts.

I've in the past had to go into branch and get a bank draft to pay a larger amount but that option is gone now too.

I've tried doing a transfer to mortgage from facility and they don't allow that either.

They will have to come up with something else to allow people redeem. Should be simple if money in facility account but they don't really do simple.
 
Keninf said:
But even if you had a card reader they limit your daily transaction to 25K on these accounts.

I've in the past had to go into branch and get a bank draft to pay a larger amount but that option is gone now too.

I've tried doing a transfer to mortgage from facility and they don't allow that either.

They will have to come up with something else to allow people redeem. Should be simple if money in facility account but they don't really do simple.
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There is only around 6k o/s. Yes I'm lucky it's small but realistically I'm retired now so it would want to be small and the bulk of it was cleared with redundancy some years ago and it's a pretty old mortgage at this stage, one of the original current account mortgages.
 
Well that was painful! 30 minutes of my life I won't get back, had to ring 3 times because 1st call told me I could set up new payee without a card reader which I partly guessed wasn't going to work so had to ring Banking section and after explaining my dilemma transferred me back to same place I started. Rang Banking again and finally after much pressing of numbers I got through to a person, basically telephone banking but I had never used that previously, anyway she set up the payee and put through the transfer so all done.

Will have to wait now and see what happens next, wonder how long it takes for them to send out deeds?

So finally it would have been a lot simpler to just do it from my EBS account but as the money was sitting in UB I'd have had to move that first.
 
Keninf said:
Well congratulations.... Mortgage free!!
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Thanks, but in my head I have been mortgage free for a good few years now as small balance and totally offset so it was already paid as such, they were just minding the deeds :D, now I'll have to mind them myself. I only kept it after redundancy because of the flexibility it offered with the available facility should I have needed it and in the past couple of years I only left it to see how UB would sort the offsets, a good decision in the end!
 
Monbretia said:
Well that was painful! 30 minutes of my life I won't get back, had to ring 3 times because 1st call told me I could set up new payee without a card reader which I partly guessed wasn't going to work so had to ring Banking section and after explaining my dilemma transferred me back to same place I started. Rang Banking again and finally after much pressing of numbers I got through to a person, basically telephone banking but I had never used that previously, anyway she set up the payee and put through the transfer so all done.

Will have to wait now and see what happens next, wonder how long it takes for them to send out deeds?

So finally it would have been a lot simpler to just do it from my EBS account but as the money was sitting in UB I'd have had to move that first.
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Very different experience this morning.. had previously rang & emailed to redeem my mortgage with no reply.. so rang again this morning.. after waiting approximately 10mins was all done in less than a minute!! Confirmed I wanted to use the funds in my facility to pay off my mortgage & was told ok that’s sorted so!! Will get a mortgage closure letter in 5-10 days & deeds 6-8 weeks later. No setting up payee.. registering for telephone banking etc..
 
Petulaa said:
Very different experience this morning.. had previously rang & emailed to redeem my mortgage with no reply.. so rang again this morning.. after waiting approximately 10mins was all done in less than a minute!! Confirmed I wanted to use the funds in my facility to pay off my mortgage & was told ok that’s sorted so!! Will get a mortgage closure letter in 5-10 days & deeds 6-8 weeks later. No setting up payee.. registering for telephone banking etc..
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That's good to know and makes so much more sense!! Can you share the number you used to call or what department/section did you get talking to. Please.
 
Keninf said:
That's good to know and makes so much more sense!! Can you share the number you used to call or what department/section did you get talking to. Please.
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Yes was very surprised how straight forward it was in the end! I rand mortgage support on 0818210275.. I was initially talking to Jamie who offered me a call back.. when I reminded him that I have actually been waiting for a call back since January 17th he suggested I stay on the line & he would put me through to next available representative.. was then talking to Michael who dealt with the mortgage closure.
 
Petulaa said:
Very different experience this morning.. had previously rang & emailed to redeem my mortgage with no reply.. so rang again this morning.. after waiting approximately 10mins was all done in less than a minute!! Confirmed I wanted to use the funds in my facility to pay off my mortgage & was told ok that’s sorted so!! Will get a mortgage closure letter in 5-10 days & deeds 6-8 weeks later. No setting up payee.. registering for telephone banking etc..
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:confused: Now why couldn't I get that!

Were you through to somewhere in Ireland or Scotland? I was definitely on to a call centre in Scotland when I had half expected the offsets were being dealt with in Dublin in whatever is left of UB. I rang the number in the redemption letter, a mistake I'd say!
 
Monbretia said:
:confused: Now why couldn't I get that!

Were you through to somewhere in Ireland or Scotland? I was definitely on to a call centre in Scotland when I had half expected the offsets were being dealt with in Dublin in whatever is left of UB. I rang the number in the redemption letter, a mistake I'd say!
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Yes after reading your ordeal I prepared myself with a very large coffee this morning!. I was definitely on to Scotland ( very strong Scottish accents). Maybe they now have a system in place.. but knowing UB it’s probably more like I got lucky & was talking to the right person at the right time!!
 
Petulaa said:
Yes after reading your ordeal I prepared myself with a very large coffee this morning!. I was definitely on to Scotland ( very strong Scottish accents). Maybe they now have a system in place.. but knowing UB it’s probably more like I got lucky & was talking to the right person at the right time!!
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In my dealings with them over the past couple of months I’ve dealt with folks from Scotland, Northern Ireland and from Dublin. Hard to know what site was in charge of what
 
Keninf said:
www.irishtimes.com

Ulster Bank merits only a footnote as NatWest moves forward

Paul Thwaite confirmed as NatWest's new permanent CEO as it announces 20% rise in operating profit across the group
www.irishtimes.com www.irishtimes.com

No mention of offsets. Are we now a "tracker or linked mortgage" included in the sale to AIB?
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If I was to make a guess I'd say that an agreement has already been reached with AIB to take the performing offsets as standard trackers, once the Offset facility has been removed after May 2024. The non-performing ones might end up elsewhere.

I often wonder in these cases if there are ever situations where mortgages can't be transferred for some reason (such as the bank not being able to locate the required customer-signed paperwork to allow then to sell the mortgage to another bank). Would the bank be stuck with those?
 
aoraki said:
If I was to make a guess I'd say that an agreement has already been reached with AIB to take the performing offsets as standard trackers, once the Offset facility has been removed after May 2024. The non-performing ones might end up elsewhere.

I often wonder in these cases if there are ever situations where mortgages can't be transferred for some reason (such as the bank not being able to locate the required customer-signed paperwork to allow then to sell the mortgage to another bank). Would the bank be stuck with those?
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A lender can sell / assign a loan without the actual original written agreement. In a very worst case scenario they can apply to court to legally endorse a transfer of a loan (e.g. as part of a larger business transfer) but usually most loans allow for transfer / assignment of debt anyway without consent.

Even if the original lender loses the documentation they can extrapolate out the terms and conditions they believe you signed based on the standardised documentation at the time, and this is equally true for anyone who buys the debt.

This combined with the data supporting the balance and transactions as proof of the fact you were remaking repayments is used to prove the debt and material terms underneath it (e.g. if you didn't agree to take a loan, why were you making repayments, why have they got your deeds, why was an insurance policy assigned etc depending on circumstances).

It's up to the court then to decide whether on the balance of probabilities you agreed to borrow on the terms outlined.

So for a loan buyer it's not without risk and effort if they do have to go to court to pursue the debt / cash in on security or appoint a receiver.

Anyone buying a loan will usually take the risk and effort into account in buying the debt at a reduced rate (a "haircut").

Many borrowers will continue to make their repayments as normal so the loan buyer is quids in there, particularly if the transfer involves a "good book".

If borrowers refuse to pay post transfer (or had already stopped paying prior to the transfer) and legal action is required there is obviously a cost associated with that (in terms of money, time and associated resource) but the reduced price the debt was purchased at provides a bit of wiggle room to allow for that.

Of course if the lender still has a copy of the original agreement it does make life a lot easier and increases the desirability of the debt to the loan buyer (and in turn increases the sale value of the loan relative to what it would be without the documentation).
 
KarditsaMan said:
A lender can sell / assign a loan without the actual original written agreement. In a very worst case scenario they can apply to court to legally endorse a transfer of a loan (e.g. as part of a larger business transfer) but usually most loans allow for transfer / assignment of debt anyway without consent.

Even if the original lender loses the documentation they can extrapolate out the terms and conditions they believe you signed based on the standardised documentation at the time, and this is equally true for anyone who buys the debt.

This combined with the data supporting the balance and transactions as proof of the fact you were remaking repayments is used to prove the debt and material terms underneath it (e.g. if you didn't agree to take a loan, why were you making repayments, why have they got your deeds, why was an insurance policy assigned etc depending on circumstances).

It's up to the court then to decide whether on the balance of probabilities you agreed to borrow on the terms outlined.

So for a loan buyer it's not without risk and effort if they do have to go to court to pursue the debt / cash in on security or appoint a receiver.

Anyone buying a loan will usually take the risk and effort into account in buying the debt at a reduced rate (a "haircut").

Many borrowers will continue to make their repayments as normal so the loan buyer is quids in there, particularly if the transfer involves a "good book".

If borrowers refuse to pay post transfer (or had already stopped paying prior to the transfer) and legal action is required there is obviously a cost associated with that (in terms of money, time and associated resource) but the reduced price the debt was purchased at provides a bit of wiggle room to allow for that.

Of course if the lender still has a copy of the original agreement it does make life a lot easier and increases the desirability of the debt to the loan buyer (and in turn increases the sale value of the loan relative to what it would be without the documentation).
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Thank you for the very detailed answer!
 
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