'Tyranny Once Again Threatens Europe' - King Charles III

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I think something big is going to happen in Russia they can't keep up this level of spending and destruction that the war is causing, their oil industry is a mess now that Ukraine is able to target their refineries not just with drones but now also with their own domestic missiles that they have started using .
Putin is blinded by his own ego , even though he is clever he can't back down he is like a gambler doubing down to try and recoup his losses. In reality he should have accepted everything Trump was offering a too good to be true offer.
The fact that he has resorted to flying drones and jets into nato airspace actually shows he is running out of options. He can't risk a war with NATO but if he keeps this up they will be forced to shoot down russian aircraft that encroach in future, what does Putin do then?
 
Purple said:
Cyber attacks, critical infrastructure blown up, airports closed down.
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Well, when I was talking about being 'under attack' I was referring more to the physical, heavy-duty stuff that real wars are made of.

For sure, I will cede cyber attacks should be dealt with and I'm all for increasing investment in our national Cyber security centre if it is considered warranted by those better in the know than me. But between the lastest attacks and the HSE one a couple years back I understand the entire direct civilian casualty to be 0.

What critical infrastructure of ours was blown up?

Purple said:
We've given Ukraine €8.37 million a month since February 2022, as outlined by you above. In total they have received €7,186 million a month during that period. That means we have contributed 00.1% of the total. None of that is what they have said they need most; weapons. You described that as Ireland playing a pivotal role. I said that is nonsense. Are you seriously suggesting otherwise?
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I wanted to avoid the adjective squabble so I will cede the word 'pivotal' may have over stated our contribution. But to conclude €380m in humanitarian and non-lethal aid amounts to 'we do nothing of value' is simply false.

Lets go to the horses mouth and see what Zelensky himself has said about Irelands contribution, "Very thankful to the people of Ireland for our sustained support for the people of Ukraine" Zelensky thankful to Ireland

So I will drop 'pivotal' for 'sustained support', you can drop 'we do nothing of value', for, whatever!




Purple said:
I'm just going by what they say
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What does Ukraine say about humanitarian and non-lethal aid it receives?
 
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Wow! Just listening to Trumps UN speech.

He is accusing European nations of buying oil and gas from Russia!
Effectively funding Russia's war effort while simultaneously "supporting" Ukraine.

Is this true??

He says it's embarrassing for Europe. If true, hard to argue.
 
JoeRoberts said:
Sure not disputed at all.
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You are absolutely right! Its not disputed at all!!

Hungary for instance, one of our EU allies that Ukraine wants to join with, has increased its crude petroleum imports from Russia. Its refined oil exports have surged in recent years to other EU countries like Austria, Slovakia, Czech Republic and Romania.

The whole thing is war-industry circus. Its an embarrassment. I have to agree with Trump.
 
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Sister Sara said:
Well, when I was talking about being 'under attack' I was referring more to the physical, heavy-duty stuff that real wars are made of.
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Okay, but it's not 1938, right?
Sister Sara said:
For sure, I will cede cyber attacks should be dealt with and I'm all for increasing investment in our national Cyber security centre if it is considered warranted by those better in the know than me. But between the lastest attacks and the HSE one a couple years back I understand the entire direct civilian casualty to be 0.

What critical infrastructure of ours was blown up?
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The Nordstrom Pipeline. It's not ours, unless you are talking about the EU, but it's infrastructure and it's critical to us.

Sister Sara said:
I wanted to avoid the adjective squabble so I will cede the word 'pivotal' may have over stated our contribution. But to conclude €380m in humanitarian and non-lethal aid amounts to 'we do nothing of value' is simply false.

Lets go to the horses mouth and see what Zelensky himself has said about Irelands contribution, "Very thankful to the people of Ireland for our sustained support for the people of Ukraine" Zelensky thankful to Ireland
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Yes, he's nice to everyone.

Sister Sara said:
So I will drop 'pivotal' for 'sustained support', you can drop 'we do nothing of value', for, whatever!
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How about we do nothing of consequence?


Sister Sara said:
What does Ukraine say about humanitarian and non-lethal aid it receives?
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It's thankful but it would prefer weapons. Obviously. It's fighting a war.
 
Sister Sara said:
But between the lastest attacks and the HSE one a couple years back I understand the entire direct civilian casualty to be 0.
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There are hundreds of lawsuits in progress against the HSE relating to negative health outcomes due to missed diagnoses or delayed treatments. It's unclear how many, if any of those relate to avoidable deaths, but these people clearly consider themselves casualties. The ~€102M direct costs and estimated €657M investment required to prevent a repeat in the short term would likely lead to better outcomes if spent on treatment.
 
redstar said:
I'd hardly call Orbans Govt an ally. They are members of the EU but oppose almost everything the EU stands for. Pro-Putin, anti-migrant, anti-climate change, homophobic - basically he the EUs version of Trump.

Happy enough to take the grants and subsidies and access the EU market though.
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They might argue that the current Eu is not what they signed up for.
 
Purple said:
How about we do nothing of consequence?
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Really? 80,000+ refugees, treated for the first 2 yrs that they were here as de-facto EU citizens with full welfare and employment rights entitlements. €380m in non-lethal aid including mine-sweeping equipment that should prevent limbs being blown away, or worse.

You cannot even reciprocate the sentiment to change your descript and admit that what we provide is of some (positive) consequence to Ukraine? Can you admit to that?
 
@Leo. Absolutely, 100%. That is why I said 'direct casualties' .

There may indeed be indirect casualties but it is hard to quantify, if any.

I'm 100% behind investing in our cyber security defences as I mentioned earlier. I'd be happy if Ireland contributed to Ukraine some enhanced software programs that would give additional protection to its interests also.
 
Sister Sara said:
Really? 80,000+ refugees, treated for the first 2 yrs that they were here as de-facto EU citizens with full welfare and employment rights entitlements.
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There are over a million of them in Germany and around a million in Poland. The Czech Republic, with twice our population and half our per capita income, has nearly 5 times as many Ukrainian refugees as us.

Sister Sara said:
€380m in non-lethal aid including mine-sweeping equipment that should prevent limbs being blown away, or worse.
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We've covered that. 00.01% of total aid given. A very small drop in the ocean.
Sister Sara said:
You cannot even reciprocate the sentiment to change your descript and admit that what we provide is of some (positive) consequence to Ukraine? Can you admit to that?
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I'm sure there have been some positive consequences for Ukraine from the aid we've given. It's just not in any way meaningful because it's not what they asked for and there's so little of it.
 
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