Paul O Mahoney
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Like everything thing else with this virus " who knows " Personally finding a vein to get anything takes hours, I usually break out in something after the flu vaccine.That seems a higher number than get similar responses to the flu vaccine... and perhaps the symptoms are more severe also.
I think it will have to be factored in, especially rollout to frontline staff, that you may have to writeoff the next 48 hours rather than just carry on as normal.
Like everything thing else with this virus " who knows " Personally finding a vein to get anything takes hours, I usually break out in something after the flu vaccine.
It will interesting to see what happens but a least the UK have approved the Pfizer Biontech vaccine and data will be available.
What system should the government use to compensate employers for having to provide that paid leave?Not sure if it's the right thread to mention it, but what would certainly ease rollout is ensuring staff can take paid time off to get the vaccine. At the moment, my understanding is that paid leave for a scheduled medical appointment isn't statutory - as opposed to an unexpected illness or accident or emergency type situation.
So clarity, something unequivocal from the government on that would be good across the private and public sector.
What system should the government use to compensate employers for having to provide that paid leave?
I hope that there will be private companies offering the vaccine. It would be great to get a site visit and just everyone vaccinated in one go. The cost would be far outweighed by the disruption avoided.Good question, I was thinking of employers which already cover such leave - and ensuring that is treated in same way as emergency.
But for employers who don't cover it, there is a government scheme, which only kicks in after X days, but it only covers statutory payment not full wages.
Without such compensation somewhere - either to employers or employees, I can see vaccine uptake being significantly affected.
A repeat of the scenarios we had where people weren't getting tested as they would miss out on working time.
It would be in employer's interests to have all their staff vaccinated - and hopefully that would be done free of charge.
I hope that there will be private companies offering the vaccine. It would be great to get a site visit and just everyone vaccinated in one go. The cost would be far outweighed by the disruption avoided.
We've been using a private company for testing anyone who has symptoms. We pay for the test. We've also paid foreign employees who were stuck in their home countries but there are employers who can't afford to pay anything extra at the moment.
Why is the temperature an issue? Ebola vaccine a few years ago had similar requirements and that seemed to be rolled out ok, and in Africa where normal "shelf life" is double that of other vaccines.From personal experience, on site vaccinations for flu are a lot less hassle.
I think with some of the vaccines on site vaccinations might be more challenging due to super cold storage requirements?
Maybe not the Pfizer one?
There would still need to be a process for people who 'miss their day' onsite - there will always be someone not in the office that day.
Why is the temperature an issue? Ebola vaccine a few years ago had similar requirements and that seemed to be rolled out ok, and in Africa where normal "shelf life" is double that of other vaccines.
Most countries would have deep cold temperature equipment, OK getting them to maximum efficiency locations might initially difficult but once in situ thats it.
mRNA doesn't degrade, its the medium in the vile that can change when exposed to temperature increases. For example the medium will contain lipids which are normally clear even to high resolution microscope but some will change and be visible.Actually it is the Pfizer one that needs the super cold storage.
It seems to be due to concerns about mRNA degrading... It's possible that Pfizer's vaccine could eventually be shown to be stable in somewhat warmer conditions — or for longer times out of the freezer.
But when running the tests they used super cold storage so that is what it would be approved for currently.
Pfizer has created a special transport box - the same size as a regular suitcase - which has a GPS tracker and can be filled with dry ice to maintain cold temperatures. The boxes can carry up to 5,000 doses at the safe temperature for up to 10 days and can be reused hundreds of times.
Once it has arrived at the facility, the drug must be stored in a specialist freezer or fridge - similar to a domestic appliance but with precise temperature controls and locks suitable for storing medicine. Storing the vaccine at -70C presents problems for care homes, GP surgeries, pharmacists and hospitals which do not have the freezer capacity to store the drug at the scale ministers would like it to be rolled out...
Asked about how it would affect the speed of the rollout, health secretary Matt Hancock told LBC the freezer requirements "are quite significant" and that it would be a "challenge" to meet the capacity needed for a rapid rollout.
What is the Pfizer/BioNTech Covid vaccine storage temperature and how will the UK store it? - LBC
mRNA doesn't degrade, its the medium in the vile that can change when exposed to temperature increases. For example the medium will contain lipids which are normally clear even to high resolution microscope but some will change and be visible.
These changes do not degrade anything and they aren't a health risk but they do change the appearance of the vaccines.......its an ongoing issue with all vaccines.
Modernas medium is different thus the temperature difference., its called stability and as the word means the vaccine says more stable at lower temperatures.Ah ok, but there must be some concern about how this relates to the effectiveness of the vaccine when delivered?
I can't imagine Pfizer went with super cold storage for appearance reasons only?
Edit: According to this NPR article
But even with the stabilized building blocks and lipid coating, the mRNA could still fall apart easily, which is why the vaccine is frozen.
"Everything happens more slowly as you lower the temperature," Liu says. "So your chemical reactions — the enzymes that break down RNA — are going to happen more slowly." It's the same idea as freezing food to keep it from spoiling.
Because the specific formulations are secret, Liu says, it's not clear exactly why these two mRNA vaccines have different temperature requirements.
"It just comes down to what their data is," she says of Moderna's vaccine. "If their data shows that it's more stable at a certain temperature, that's it."
Why Moderna And Pfizer Vaccines Have Different Cold Storage Requirements : Shots - Health News : NPR
Well that didn't take long, looks like the US aren't going to get its 100m doses this year, according to AP.
Anyone find the schoolyard stuff amusing , I'm mean senior politicians getting into spats over who's the best , I was surprised at the German Ambassador weighting in, more surprised at Fauci saying what he said.
I would say the political pressure that is going on behind the scenes must be intense.
Well that didn't take long, looks like the US aren't going to get its 100m doses this year, according to AP.
Yeah Matt Hancock apparently said the same.Disappointing there will be less doses available - supply chain quality issues?
On the political side... more of this hopefully - Obama, Clinton, Bush & Biden have volunteered to be inoculated on camera... although it still won't convince everyone (they got a placedo etc)
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