The Reality of Education Cutbacks

B

Butter

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Had to let a bit of steam off on this one!
Got a letter from my daughter's school today. Her class of 25 pupils is being split up in September because of the change in pupil:teacher ratio from 27:1 to 28:1.
5 pupils get moved from her class into another 1st class (with 27 kids already), another 5 go into the second 1st class and the remaining 15 will be in a split class with 13 senior infants.
Either way friends will be split up and my daughter ends up in a class of 32 or else is in a split class with one teacher & with kids a year younger than her.
So increasing the pupil:teacher ratio by 1 ends up meaning splitting classes and 32 pupil class-rooms. Even back in the late seventies and early eighties when I was in primary school things weren't that bad!
I'm fully aware that cutbacks will have to be made as the country is spending €70 million more a day than is coming in, but why does it always have to affect the front line of education and health?
I'm also frustrated by the fact that I'm paying a lot more in taxes to end up with inferior standards in education!
 
I seem to remember the same thing happening to my sister four years ago, kids were split up alphabetically! Hmmm cut backs even then!
 
I agree that it must be very frustrating for this to happen to your child at a time when taxes are increasing.
I am doing my HDip in September and I called to the school where I will be doing my teaching practice a few weeks ago. The Dept of Education Junior Cert syllabus for the subject clearly states that students should be able to use computers and be familiar with basic programmes,etc. I remarked on this to the Principle and she said that it would not be tested on at JC level as the Dept. know that a lot of schools just don't have the computer resources. This particular school is very well regarded in the area and it doesn't have enough computers for a class? If this is what it is like after ten boom years I hate to think what it will be like in 5/10 years time. It makes me wonder what those in Government are talking about when they refer to "our strong knowledge economy"..
 
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Bear in mind that our teachers start on 41k, versus 22k stg in the UK.

Ours end up on 70-75k if they have an A-post.

I know a part-time teacher on 85 ph.

All this pushes up pay costs, leaving less to spend on non-pay.
 
The children being merged with the senior infants are at a big disadvantage here - disgrace.
 
Hi all, thanks for the replies.

If those pay rates are correct, then that definitely contributes to the problem. €41k is high for someone who has just finished college.

It's amazing how quickly the money from 10 years of boom times has just evaporated. How does the government reckon we can promote our "smart economy" when kids can't use computers in school? Shortsighted!

I agree that the first class kids are at a disadvantage when mixed with senior infants - that extra year makes a huge difference to them at that age. It can be the difference between just sounding out letters and actually reading books. It's probably not such a disadvantage to be in the younger group. I'm also concerned that my daughter will be 7 in August and could be in a split class with kids in senior infants who could be only 5 and a half.

I wrote an angry letter to my local Fianna Fail T.D last night to illustrate what raising the pupil:teacher ratio by one actually means!
 
It's amazing how quickly the money from 10 years of boom times has just evaporated. How does the government reckon we can promote our "smart economy" when kids can't use computers in school? Shortsighted!
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My wife is a secondary school teacher in a large secondary school. Says that for the past 3-4 years, there have been a load of computers sitting in unopened boxes in the school storeroom. Most schools in Ireland were given generous IT budgets during the boom times and spent them - you know the old saying, if you dont spend your budget this year, you wont get it next year. Problem is that the budgets are generally spend on peripherals i.e. PCs & printers. Nobody in the school has the expertise to set these machines up on a network and wire the classrooms. The is also no IT support budget. So all these machines sit in boxes going out of date. I'm told that similar happens in a lot of schools.
 
I left national school in 1976 and there were 36 in our class.

My 8yo son is finishing second class this month and has had 31 in his class since junior infants.

Progress :rolleyes: ?

csirl said:
.. Nobody in the school has the expertise to set these machines up on a network and wire the classrooms. The is also no IT support budget. So all these machines sit in boxes going out of date. I'm told that similar happens in a lot of schools.
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+1 for the school my kids attend. There is one teacher in the junior school who is clued in and has championed the use of PCs and electronic whiteboards in the curriculum. My son is heading for senior school which is in the same campus, and there is no similar culture because there is no equivalent champion for IT in the senior school.
 
DeeFox said:
I remarked on this to the Principle and she said that it would not be tested on at JC level as the Dept. know that a lot of schools just don't have the computer resources...
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Might learn how to spell "Principal" before starting the dip. ;)

Protocol said:
Bear in mind that our teachers start on 41k, versus 22k stg in the UK.

Ours end up on 70-75k if they have an A-post.

I know a part-time teacher on 85 ph.

All this pushes up pay costs, leaving less to spend on non-pay.
Click to expand...

Want to comment so badly...must fight urge... ban on public sector bashing...
 
There were 34 in my primary school class and we lived in a very good area (not disadvantaged by any stretch), and 36 in the other class of the same year.
I never felt I lost out due to the size of the class.

That was late 80s/early 90s.

Weren't taxes higher in the 80s than they are now?
 
VOR said:
Want to comment so badly...must fight urge... ban on public sector bashing...
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How is it public sector bashing to point out something quite legitimate? Our teachers are very well paid compared with our European neighbours - either the money goes on hiring more teachers on lower salaries, or it goes on paying fewer teachers higher salaries. Can't have it every way.
 
Sherman said:
How is it public sector bashing to point out something quite legitimate? Our teachers are very well paid compared with our European neighbours - either the money goes on hiring more teachers on lower salaries, or it goes on paying fewer teachers higher salaries. Can't have it every way.
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Exactly.

I might be wrong, but didn't the teachers themselves, via the unions, opt for increased salaries as opposed to decreasing class sizes?
 
Sherman said:
How is it public sector bashing to point out something quite legitimate? Our teachers are very well paid compared with our European neighbours - either the money goes on hiring more teachers on lower salaries, or it goes on paying fewer teachers higher salaries. Can't have it every way.
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I agree with you but any comment on public sector pay is banned.

As a general point, I believe that a good teacher is worth their weight in gold. Whether there are 27 or 36 in a class, the teacher will make the difference. But there is no management or measurement of performance.

If I said to my boss in the private sector that computers could not be connected, I'd have my ass handed to me. Nike have JDI for Just DO It, I believe in JFDI.
 
VOR said:
...any comment on public sector pay is banned.
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I was not aware of this.

Public sector bashing, yes, but 'any comment on public sector pay'?

Can you direct me to where this was posted/announced?
 
Ceasefire on public sector criticism
Due to increased reporting and unnecessary use of moderators time a ceasefire is necessary on AAM on public sector criticism for a trial period of 7 days.

Any relevant threads are being closed and anyone starting a new one on this subject will be banned.

Abuse of others threads to steer them onto this subject will result in the thread being closed and possible banning of the poster.

Additional note: We are extending the ban until further notice.
 
Yes, as I said, I am aware of this.

Where does it say that "any comment on public sector pay is banned" ?
 
I would consider "public sector criticism" as any discussion of the public sector. So the act of passing judgment i.e. criticism of public sector pay is banned.
A very literal interpretation but a common sense one I would think.
 
I went to primary school in the 80’s and most classes had around 40 pupils. It didn’t affect my development or education one jot. We had (mostly) good teachers, a good play area outside and my mother always helped with homework during the formative years, especially with basic English and computational maths. I still believe that the latter point is the most important. Class sizes and teacher dedication count for nothing if the pupil goes home and their parents don’t help, or even worse, aren’t there with a dinner waiting for them.
Children need rearing. My brother teaches in a geal scoil and he tells me half the kids turn up starving in the morning having been dropped off by parents who barely know what class they are in, let alone what they do for homework. Parent teacher meetings are a joke even when the parent shows up. From my own experience children who are not doing well in primary school are not doing well at home.
 
mouly i agree with you.
except when you make this point

From my own experience children who are not doing well in primary school are not doing well at home.

Having had a brother with a learning disability, my mother sat down trying to teach him as best she could and i remember the tears of them both. only for his resource teacher one year he would tell you himself he would not be reading today.
Children who are neglected because they have needs not being met can have the support at home but need the teacher dedication continuously. To teach using different methods, to coax, to encourage, to praise etc. now those children are the first to be ignored and left behind.
Brother is extremely clever with a driven work ethic and always has been - mortgage free at 30 working as a construction labourer in the last 10 years. Had his primary teacher and my mother not warned him it was over their dead bodies he was dropping out before the Inter when he got really depressed and dispairing i think that the story could have been quite different.
I do agree though and i think research has shown it that the mother's attitude to education has a direct influence on the childs performance.

Good teachers should be rewarded. Bad teachers should be cast aside swiftly.
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