"The one million suckers who are paying for bailout have taken enough"

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As someone who signed on in 2011 for the first time after nearly 30 years working I was amazed at what I was able to claim from the SW
At one stage between myself and my wife we were receiving payments that were in excess of 26k a year
I am now self employed earning less then the SW payments we received and while I might not agree with someone turning down a job offer of €500pw I can understand why they wouldn't take the job.
 
Brendan Burgess said:
But as we don't do that, then it's not criminal for the person to be choosy and not take a job unless it's perfect.

Brendan
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Being picky is one thing but many people have no intention of ever taking a job. Living off their fellow citizens is a lifestyle choice.
 
Purple,

{many people have no intention of ever taking a job}
I really don,t think that is true , what is very true is that when we perceive that someone is cheating, it magnifies our anger.

Cervelo.
I am glad that after 30 years ,you as a tax- payer ,could honourably expect to be covered.
With individual (dole) @ 188 per week , your k26 would be an exception.

I believe there are very very few occasions where 500 wages is trumped by (dole).
 
Gerry Canning said:
Purple,

{many people have no intention of ever taking a job}
I really don,t think that is true , what is very true is that when we perceive that someone is cheating, it magnifies our anger.

I believe there are very very few occasions where 500 wages is trumped by (dole).
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I know quite a few of them. I also know people who have given up working as they are better off on the dole. They were earning in excess of €500 per week.
There was a letter to the Sunday Business Post a few years ago from a man in the West of Ireland with 2 kids in college. He said that he would nee a job paying in excess of €62'000 a year to be better off working when college fees, medical expenses, work related expenses and childcare costs for his younger children were taken into account.
 
Purple ,
I really do hear you , but would be very interested in getting actual figures other than these outliers.
Financially (for the rest of us) I just can,t see there are many..
Even a few grates !
 
Purple said:
I know quite a few of them. I also know people who have given up working as they are better off on the dole. They were earning in excess of €500 per week.
There was a letter to the Sunday Business Post a few years ago from a man in the West of Ireland with 2 kids in college. He said that he would nee a job paying in excess of €62'000 a year to be better off working when college fees, medical expenses, work related expenses and childcare costs for his younger children were taken into account.
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There are quite a lot of "fools" working who are paying private health insurance, work related expenses, college fees and accommodation costs, rent/mortgage for home and who are not "eligible" for all these entitlements. It takes a pretty high gross income to cover all these costs at this stage of ones life.

Sorry Gerry but there are a lot of people working during the college and creche phases of their childrens lives who would be better off not working.
 
OK, a guy won't work because it is financially crazy for him to do so. Let's grass on him and you can have your name painted on every wall available So-and-So is an Informer. The guy won't work because he can get away with being bailed out by everybody else.

But, isn't this the nature of Paddy-the-Irishman? Yer Man doesn't work and it is patently obvious to everybody looking at him.

Now, let's look on 3rd Level Education Grants. What percentage of college students qualify in every way for such a handout? Then ask ourselves, how much of these are made up with those who can legally or illegally cook the books?

How many people have Medical Cards who don't deserve them?

Did anybody listen to the lady on Joe Duffy yesterday making a case for herself driving the wrong way up a one-way system just because it was 8.00am and she does it at least 3 times per week? Duffy, of course agreed with her. How dare those gardaí give her an €80 fine and penalty points. On the same show another lady complained she received a fine and penalty points for talking on her mobile phone while driving. She used the death of her sister as an excuse.

In the supermarket yesterday while Mrs Lep and I did our weekly shopping a guy passed the entire queue of shopping trolleys. "I don't have time to wait" he exclaimed and guess what - the check-out operator fast forwarded him through. And nobody said a word. When I exited the supermarket I again encountered the guy who could not wait talking to another about Willy Mullins' successes at Cheltenham.

There are some pretty hefty contributors to this forum who can argue here about anything (perhaps I am one?). But when it comes to confronting somebody who somehow circumvents all problems, we don't.

We talk about the guy screwing the Social Welfare system. We say "good on ya" to somebody getting a 3rd Level Grant who doesn't deserve it. We don't care who does or who doesn't get a Medical Card. Our well paid radio presenters condone the blatent breaking the rules of the road.

So what are we whinging about here? We can whinge and whinge, but sooner or later we're onto the next subject. We need a society that will prosecute abusers of our system with zero tolerance.

. . . and then we'll complain that we live in a police state.
 
The anecdotal premise that work doesn't pay is undermined by the ESRI report of June 2015 which calculates that fewer than 3% would be better off not working , while 8 out of 10 would see their income increase by 40%.
For children with families the ESRI calculate that fewer than 1 in 15 would be better off staying out of work.
It should be noted that this report focuses on benefits versus wages & does not include the cost of travelling to & from work & the cost of childcare.
 
It is true that work pays for single, childless people, yes.

But that ESRI report ignore the reality of third-level fees.

Does it included the value of med cards, and most importantly, rent supp?
 
For a 40% increase in income, you need to work 39hrs a week. This is what would put some people off. They would see a lot of effort and loss of freedom for a little return and more responsibility.
 
Although I am somewhat reluctant to get involved in this echo chamber discussion, I would like to point out something about living on social welfare from my own observation.

Despite the rules being the same for everyone, there are in fact great inequalities between social welfare dependants.

A single person over 24 receives €188 per week. Out of this some people pay the full cost of private rented accommodation. Others in receipt of RAS pay €15 per week (may have changed recently) toward the cost of their accommodation. And still others live at home with Mam while waiting for their own council house to come through.

There are winners and losers within the welfare world just as in the world of work.
 
A single person aged 24 receives €100 a week , a single person aged 25 receives €144 ( these payments apply to those without children ) & those aged 26 & over receive €188
 
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Deiseblue said:
I agree , it's good to see an independent report as opposed to anecdotal evidence.
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You forgot the :rolleyes: there buddy. It would be great to see an independent report about living costs which took living costs into account.

Deiseblue said:
As an aside the majority of the unemployed are young & childless.
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Indeed and that weakens the argument for high rates of welfare.
 
losttheplot said:
For a 40% increase in income, you need to work 39hrs a week. This is what would put some people off. They would see a lot of effort and loss of freedom for a little return and more responsibility.
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Especially when that 40% figure doesn't take the cost of getting to work or childcare into account. That could reduce it to zero or even a negative figure.
 
Purple .
{Independent} , seems only to apply only if suits one side of discussion?
I am inclined, unless shown otherwise to accept that report .

I am inclined to accept, that since majority are {young and childless} it weakens argument for welfare .

Protocol;.
ERSI ignore 3rd level fees ? Seems that those down the social ladder don,t have the (joy) of playing system to get to 3rd level.
Outside of games played by some self-employed on income , I don,t think many genuine SW recipients play the College card?

Medical Cards.
Surely these are of value to most people/families on lower incomes not just SW recipients.

Lost the plot.
I hear your 40% , yet circa 100,000 + have moved into employment from dole . I am thinking most didn,t get a 40% uplift but retrieved their pride .

Having been in Welfare Position a few times , it really , really irks me to read some of the posts.
I fully accept we have some leg-lifters but in the scheme of things not too many.

The old saying {walk in their shoes } etc comes to mind.
 
Great post Leper. If everyone was 100% tax compliant in this country we would have a very equal society. There are plenty people scamming off the state and another group to be added to the list are those "Serial Entrepreneurs" who get grants from Enterprise Ireland.
 
Firefly said:
There are plenty people scamming off the state and another group to be added to the list are those "Serial Entrepreneurs" who get grants from Enterprise Ireland.
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I know the Enterprise Ireland system quite well and generally don't bother applying for grants because a) being East of the Shannon there's very little available and b) the checks and paperwork is considerable (as it should be).
If you are a manufacturing export company in Ireland you get 0% grant aid for capital investment in machinery. In Northern Ireland you get 50%.
If there is any abuse of the EI grants system it takes place in Universities where professors and medical doctors get large grants to develop Intellectual Property which won't be commercialised in Ireland but will give tax free IP royalties to the University and academics who developed it.
 
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