The Boris deal

PGF2016

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337
Won't happen.

Pretty much can't happen, politically.

Leo/our senior civil servants have played a blinder.

it really doesn't matter whether Borris gets this through parliament on Saturday - he'll win the inevitable GE anyway.

It's all over folks. Our boys done good.
Well not quite. It's not all over yet. There is still the possibility of no deal if no free trade agreement is agread upon and if no extension is sought by the UK by June 2020. At the end of the transition period (Dec 2020) a no deal scenario would occur. Some of the hard Brexiters will support Boris tomorrow based on that possibility.
 

Purple

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I hate to say it but the DUP have a point when they say that this deal breaches the spirit of the GFA.
The whole idea of power sharing was that both sides have to agree to stuff. Now it's just an overall majority.
 

Early Riser

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No, this bit specifically relates to a vote by the assembly. That's the issue. You don't have to like them to see that they have a point.
So take it out of the Assembly and put it to popular vote - like Brexit.

Brexit rode roughshod over the Good Friday/Belfast agreement, which was built on the basis of the greater membership of both communities in the EU - beyond the Irish/British dichotomy.

Not feeling a bit sorry for the DUP. They pushed for a hard Brexit - one that would do most damage to the northern settlement and would impose a border of some sort in Ireland. They never showed any concern about the Good Friday agreement or cross community buy-in.
 

WolfeTone

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394
Duh!
The DUP never signed up for the GFA/BA.
True, so if they are serious about both sides having to agree, I dont think there is anything stopping them signing up to it today? They certainly seem to be signing its praises all of a sudden.
 

Drakon

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True, so if they are serious about both sides having to agree, I dont think there is anything stopping them signing up to it today? They certainly seem to be signing its praises all of a sudden.
Probably because this talk of “a border on the Irish Sea” is essentially what the republicans and nationalists have essentially always wanted.
Will this soon lead to a border poll?
If NI voted for a United Ireland in a border poll, I assume there would have to be a “Unity Poll” in the ROI?
 

Early Riser

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Probably because this talk of “a border on the Irish Sea” is essentially what the republicans and nationalists have essentially always wanted.
They would certainly want this in preference to a land border in Ireland. But what they always essentially wanted was no Brexit.

Theresa May's deal with a UK backstop would have had no border in the Irish Sea and no land border in Ireland. But the DUP rejected this also, even though it too was acceptable to nationalists.

So what is that they the DUP did want? To the best if my knowledge they have never said - beyond a "sensible Brexit". As they have rejected everything else is hard not to believe that what they really wanted was a land border in Ireland - and to hell with the consequences, whether economically or politically.

Both sides in NI are capable of intransigence. But on the Brexit issue it has been all one-sided.
 

Duke of Marmalade

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Leo has played a blinder. He has made a big concession in allowing the North alone decide whether there is a hard border on the island but he has got away with it!
My guess is the DUP secretly want Boris to win. Gets Brexit out of the way for a while and yet they can claim they did their best. The Unionist press in the North are really playing up that the Unionist community have been shafted - the DUP could not have supported this electorally. I see David Trimble is giving the deal a glowing endorsement - trying to wrongfoot the DUP maybe, won't work. The DUP have achieved their main aim, they have cemented themselves as the rock solid choice of Unionists in the North.
Wolfie it is not about having the same VAT rates. Countries in the EU are free to chose their VAT rates. It is about the process of claiming rebates. Claiming rebates of VAT takes place seemlessly within the same VAT system - between systems it's a pain in the butt. NI folk will be in the EU VAT system not the UK one - a further splash of green paint on their bright orange clothes.
 
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Early Riser

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My guess is the DUP secretly want Boris to win
I see the logic in that - it would certainly get them out of a mess. But Sky were reporting earlier today about some members of the Tory "spartans" complaining about the agressiveness of the canvassing that was coming from some in the DUP (esp. Sammy Wilson) - to get them to vote against the deal tomorrow.
 

Duke of Marmalade

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I see the logic in that - it would certainly get them out of a mess. But Sky were reporting earlier today about some members of the Tory "spartans" complaining about the agressiveness of the canvassing that was coming from some in the DUP (esp. Sammy Wilson) - to get them to vote against the deal tomorrow.
That certainly would go against my contrarian narrative. Can't see how the DUP can now think they will ever get what they say they want, they should want off the hook.
 

RichInSpirit

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875
Sinn Féin could provide the necessary votes to get this over the line. Just a once off in the national interest.
 

WolfeTone

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394
My guess is the DUP secretly want Boris to win.
I agree. Its GFA all over again, kind of. Staunch hardened opposition against it, but fast forward in time and Dodds and Foster cant help remind us of the damage we are doing to it.

It is about the process of claiming rebates. Claiming rebates of VAT takes place seemlessly within the same VAT system - between systems it's a pain in the butt.
Granted, and it remains to be seen how in practical terms this will work. But my point is that if frictionless trade can be maintained, in 12 months time nobody will bat an eyelid about this stuff.
The heart and soul of identity politics it is not.

Sinn Féin could provide the necessary votes to get this over the line. Just a once off in the national interest.
Same could be said of DUP.
The general political census is that Brexit, in any form, is not good for Ireland, so useless hoping SF would vote for this deal.
The DUP believe Brexit is good for UK. Ok, they haven't got the terms they wanted, but for the good of their country, shouldn't they take one for the team?
 

elacsaplau

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….Should I just take the not so patriotic 1.7 on offer for England/All Black double in the rugby instead?!…………..Read: I wouldn't be very comfortable laying that sporting outcome at those odds for any sort of serious money!
Disappointing performance today...…...but not surprising...…..I thought that England and NZ would simply outclass their opponents and so it transpired.
 
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