The Bishops and the Covid regulations

[cremeegg]

While I know bishops have done worse I am really astounded that the Bishops are letting communions and confirmations go ahead in defiance of public health guidelines.

This more than anything shows how far the church has fallen out of step with establishment Ireland.

That they might feel that the regulations are unreasonably strict against church events or that the guidelines have been developed without consolation I understand, maybe this is even true, but an organisation that has so much to loose by falling out with the state, it really surprises me that the church hierarchy is stepping out of line like this.

 

[Ceist Beag]

Completely agree, for individuals who put themselves on such a high moral ground, this is quite the statement they are making. Maybe they will claim this is allowed for under cardinal law!

 

[joer]

Where I live communions are going ahead BUT only four children each Sunday allowed to get their communion and only four people allowed with the child . It is a great plan and working very well .

 

[Sunny]

To be fair to the Church, the issue around communions and confirmations isn't what happens in the Church. It is what happening in houses afterwards. That's what Public Health are afraid of. Numbers in the Church can be managed. I can see why they simply want the ceremonies to go ahead. What people do outside the Church isn't in their control.

On the issue of Communions and Confirmations, I wish Irish people would just cop themselves on. They have gone completely ridiculous. My wife was asked the other day if she had done anything for our daughters communion NEXT YEAR. The woman nearly collapsed when we said she might not be doing it. People who wouldn't know what the inside of a Church looks like running around the Country looking for dresses. I heard there is now a communion 'Fair' like wedding fairs. Communions and Confirmations should be simple affairs conducted in school uniforms or robes. Our local Priest tried to introduce this and the parents revolted going on about how it is such a special day for the child getting the dress etc. Such utter rubbish. Adults have this amazing ability to completely take over and destroy these events with their own notions and neurotic behaviour.

 

[joer]

Absolutely true. The child gets the communion or confirmation and the parents celebrate.....in 'style'.

 

[Peanuts20]

First Communions have been going on for months in parishes around the country. In my own parish, 7 kids have got their first Communion in the last month, at a normal Sunday mass (2 or 3 every Sunday). Their parents asked the PP could they do it, he said yes, the kids, the parents and family turned up and the kids got their First Communion. Those masses were completely and utterly in line with Covid regulations with restrictions on numbers in pods etc etc. How that is a danger is beyond me. The kids were going to mass anyway so I fail to see what additional risk was being added by them taking the host in their hands. They've actually been quite nice in the sense that the madness of the big day was gone.

And here is the key point, the instructions the bishops are giving out is to adhere to the guidelines on numbers etc. Hence, in most parishes, the "big" day with the entire class won't happen. Instead it will be split across a large number of masses within the guidelines. I've no doubt some parish will cock it up but most won't as the priests don't need the hassle.

Indeed, one bishop (in Kilkenny) is considering have a giant confirmation cermony in Nolan Park. I presume his logic is if we can have 4000 people in a stadium watching the Kilkenny hurlers, why can't we have 2000 in a stadium for a confirmation?. it'll be no different to the EID celebrations in Croker a couple of weeks ago

And if 50 people can go and toast Katherine Zapone getting a new job.....................

 

[joe sod]

Indeed, one bishop (in Kilkenny) is considering have a giant confirmation cermony in Nolan Park. I presume his logic is if we can have 4000 people in a stadium watching the Kilkenny hurlers, why can't we have 2000 in a stadium for a confirmation?. it'll be no different to the EID celebrations in Croker a couple of weeks ago

And if 50 people can go and toast Katherine Zapone getting a new job.....................

That's the key point and that's why the bishops are rebelling, they feel there is another agenda besides health to keep these events stopped. The government bent over backwards to get the gaa up and running announcing 40000 can attend the all Ireland's, no "abbundance of caution" there. Last year the big upsurge in cases was due to the county finals going ahead and all the associated drinking and partying afterwards

Only after the zappone shenanigans did the government seek attorney general's guidance on their own regulations and of course it was interpreted in zappones and varadkers favour , the most liberal interpretation of the rules. There is a new elite in Ireland , Katherine zappone is the epitome of that, an ex minister not even of fine Gael party being facilitated with a status job in the UN. It's a long way from paddy the plasterer and the Galway tent. At least paddy the plasterer was putting money in .

 

[Leo]

Those masses were completely and utterly in line with Covid regulations with restrictions on numbers in pods etc etc. How that is a danger is beyond me.

The restrictions are completely unrelated to the church element...

 

[Peanuts20]

The restrictions are completely unrelated to the church element...

They why are the Govt saying the Church service should not go ahead,?? After all, they've said parents should take responsibility for their kids in terms of deciding if they go or do not go into a restauraunt. You can go an get married and have an event afterwards. You could go out and get completely and utterly plastered tonight in a pub if you want to. I don't know if it bigotry, hypocrisy or just plain ignorence by the Govt but it totally and utterly lacks logic

 

[Leo]

They why are the Govt saying the Church service should not go ahead,??

As widely reported, to discourage the large gatherings that follow. What effect would you expect thousands of such gatherings of extended families who don't normally socialise together around the country to have on case numbers?

 

[joe sod]

@Leo what about the gaa and 40000 being allowed into croke park to see all Ireland's, what about all.the gatherings in pubs and elsewhere after those. The gaa finals and partying afterwards were largely responsible for the upsurge in covid cases last September. It's the lack of consistency and favouritism being shown to some sectors most notably the gaa that is the issue

 

[Leo]

@Leo what about the gaa and 40000 being allowed into croke park to see all Ireland's,

What about them? Surely you understand that the risk profile of that outdoor, socially distanced event is not the same as an extended family gathering in a house?

The gaa finals and partying afterwards were largely responsible for the upsurge in covid cases last September.

They were, and the events that caused that surge were large gatherings indoors with no social distancing.

It's the lack of consistency and favouritism being shown to some sectors most notably the gaa that is the issue

What indoor events are the GAA being allowed to hold?

 

[joe sod]

@Leo but your justification for not allowing communions and confirmations to commence is because of the potential of socializing afterwards but the gaa is allowed to proceed despite the fact that there has been extensive socializing afterwards. That's just inconsistent and unfair, churches and cathedrals are some of the biggest indoor venues in the country .

 

[Peanuts20]

As widely reported, to discourage the large gatherings that follow. What effect would you expect thousands of such gatherings of extended families who don't normally socialise together around the country to have on case numbers?

Thousands of these gathering are happening every week, it's called dining out or going to the pub, or going to the Aviva to watch Bohs or Croker to watch Cork or Dublin. Why are religous cermonies being singled out by the D4 Govt?

 

[Leo]

@Leo but your justification for not allowing communions and confirmations to commence is because of the potential of socializing afterwards but the gaa is allowed to proceed despite the fact that there has been extensive socializing afterwards. That's just inconsistent and unfair, churches and cathedrals are some of the biggest indoor venues in the country .

It's not my justification, it's the reason that has been put out by official sources. Are you suggesting all the parties happen inside churches???

 

[Leo]

Thousands of these gathering are happening every week, it's called dining out or going to the pub, or going to the Aviva to watch Bohs or Croker to watch Cork or Dublin. Why are religous cermonies being singled out by the D4 Govt?

No, compliant indoor dining and on-premise drinking carry a very different risk profile to a large gathering in a house.

Why is it a D4 Govt.? Did the rest of the country not get a say at the last election?

 

[Bluefin]

Leo have you been out much in the last month?

For every venue that applies the rules correctly (scanning Covid19 cert, name phone details, checking drivers license id) table service only, there's another that's only half pretending to check the required details..

An irish solution to a NPHET problem

 

[Peanuts20]

No, compliant indoor dining and on-premise drinking carry a very different risk profile to a large gathering in a house.

Why is it a D4 Govt.? Did the rest of the country not get a say at the last election?

But there are no restrictions on fully vacinated people visiting each others houses anymore, in the same way as there are no restrictions on fully vacinated people traveling to France or going into a pub and getting drunk. Fully vacinated people could put a marquee up, in a back garden, and have 50 people around for a wedding or sit in the garden of the Merrion hotel if they want to. For some reason, certain politicians seem to think a First Communion is some kind of bachinalan last days of Rome orgy.

And yes, I know some people will say there will be unvacinated people but the Govt said that parents should trust their judgement when taking kids into a restaurant.

 

[Leo]

Leo have you been out much in the last month?

For every venue that applies the rules correctly (scanning Covid19 cert, name phone details, checking drivers license id) table service only, there's another that's only half pretending to check the required details..

An irish solution to a NPHET problem

I have been out a little, but not much. There's a pandemic still raging and getting worse you know!

Is your argument that some venues are failing in their responsibility to us all to help slow the spread of Covid, so we should all abandon the rules? So despite legislation, some people still exceed the speed limits, so we should abandon them too despite knowing they save lives?

 

[Leo]

But there are no restrictions on fully vacinated people visiting each others houses anymore, in the same way as there are no restrictions on fully vacinated people traveling to France or going into a pub and getting drunk.

Do you believe thousands of such events are happening indoors across the country with large gatherings of people who don't usually socialise together are mixing?

And yes, I know some people will say there will be unvacinated people but the Govt said that parents should trust their judgement when taking kids into a restaurant.

I was speaking to a friend lately who is hopeful that ceremonies will not proceed for some time yet. As many others, they feel obliged to have the big party in the house because that's what the child and the extended families expect, and a number of his in-laws have refused to be vaccinated. He doesn't want them putting other relatives at risk but feels trapped as not inviting them would lead to grief.