galway_blow_in
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whats your point ?
tenant not paying rent wont leave
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whats your point ?
TheBigShort
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And the flip side of that, is that while the private rental market is a business, it should not be compared to all other private markets.
It is a market that deals with people’s basic security – shelter, this is essential to the functioning of a civilised modern society . The private rental market cannot be compared to other markets like iphones, or cars, or tickets to a rock concert. It should be subject to a different set of rules.
Another point is, why is it automatically assumed that this private business is being forced to run at a loss? Is not possible that the landlord seeking to evict is already profiting but simply trying to maximise profits?
Final point, the concept that I can become a landlord by virtue of a mortgage application is wholly inadequate. Tomorrow if I want, the bank will lend me €250,000 to buy a house and become a landlord. No business plan involved, no questions over contingency plans for non-payment of rent. If I asked for a €250,000 loan to finance a new business, the money would be a lot harder got.
The unsustainable nature of our private rental sector is exposed by virtue that it is overly dependent on landlords who took a mortgage with the intention that it will paid off in 25 – 30yrs, by the very people who the banks determine cannot afford a mortgage in the first place.
Landlords should expect, or at least be very prepared to expect, that over the course of mortgage term, non-payment of rent, or rent disputes, or tenant disputes, etc are part and parcel of the sector. Anyone who is not prepared should stay out of the rental market.
It is a market that deals with people’s basic security – shelter, this is essential to the functioning of a civilised modern society . The private rental market cannot be compared to other markets like iphones, or cars, or tickets to a rock concert. It should be subject to a different set of rules.
Another point is, why is it automatically assumed that this private business is being forced to run at a loss? Is not possible that the landlord seeking to evict is already profiting but simply trying to maximise profits?
Final point, the concept that I can become a landlord by virtue of a mortgage application is wholly inadequate. Tomorrow if I want, the bank will lend me €250,000 to buy a house and become a landlord. No business plan involved, no questions over contingency plans for non-payment of rent. If I asked for a €250,000 loan to finance a new business, the money would be a lot harder got.
The unsustainable nature of our private rental sector is exposed by virtue that it is overly dependent on landlords who took a mortgage with the intention that it will paid off in 25 – 30yrs, by the very people who the banks determine cannot afford a mortgage in the first place.
Landlords should expect, or at least be very prepared to expect, that over the course of mortgage term, non-payment of rent, or rent disputes, or tenant disputes, etc are part and parcel of the sector. Anyone who is not prepared should stay out of the rental market.
TheBigShort
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Even if that were the case, the rent is being paid.
RETIRED2017
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If is a problem in Ireland and they don't have the same problem in other countries in is down to the parties who have being in power since its foundation all center right?
The media will be all over them if they speak out pointing out they did nothing they were asleep at the wheel and still are,
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The private rental is a business. If you want to make it something else then its not private or a business.
How do do ensure a Owner can sustain repeated loss'es. if there is no profit then no one is interested.
So usually the suggestion is remove small LL and replace with big LL.
But in fact its small LL most likely to want take the smallest profit. Big companies the fast buck, big profits.
You have you wish, small LL, leaving big business entering. Rental Caps. You also have more homelessness, prices rising and less rental properties, and still no real action from the govt to provide housing.
Still sawing the branch you are on. The solution is protect tenancy, put also give LL protection. At the moment LL has no protection.
In fact we've moved to a higher branch, have more people standing on it and made the problem much worse.
There are similar and dis similar problems for similar and dis-similar reasons.
Only part of it is being paid.
So the Govt has outsourced the work, then is only paying 3/4 of the bill. The company is taking the hit on the 1/4
Yes, but not all being paid by the Tenant as you had portrayed it.
I think most landlords are prepared for that, they'd be very naive otherwise.
But where they follow the law/rules and are still left out of pocket for months on end because of a system that is totally against them, where even the politicians advocate the breaking of the law....well that's a whole different ball game.
galway_blow_in
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galway_blow_in
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indeed , even you had the cash to buy without a mortgage , what good would it be if a tenant could decide simply not to pay , your capital is tied up and even you sell , you take a hit due to a tenant who has gone rogue
RETIRED2017
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Now you sound like a centre right Irish politician speaking on RTE who wants to get paid and avoid doing there job ,The people who can and do not pay there rent love that kind of guy he is the reason why,
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TheBigShort
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I'm not exactly sure what your gripe is here. If the tenant is paying the rent, then why would the small LL be complaining about OH?
The Horseman
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The private sector rental market is a business and should be treated as one. You make the point that a basic security is Shelter, to extend upon that rationale then another basic requirement is food, should supermarkets etc be told sorry you can't trade as a business in the commercial world unless The Govt can interfere.
If you want to help both sides of this situation (landlords and tenants) build more social houses and make people actually pay their rent. One of the reasons The Govt introduced HAP was to shift the responsibility for housing onto the private sector while at the same time leaving the landlords out to dry with a rogue tenant. Private landlords are paying 54% of income back to the tax man but yet that never seems to considered when this topic is raised.
Any person who engages in business does so to make a profit, any person looking for a mortgage from a bank for a buy to let needs a 30% deposit up front. The contingency plan for non payment of the mortgage is repossession although we as a society point blank refuse to engage in repossessions when they should happen because of our dysfunctional notion that everybody is entitled to a property where they want and the hell with who has to pay for it.
I agree that landlords should expect some non payment of rent at some point but to allow non payment of rent and then for it to take up to a year to evict a tenant is ridiculous. In the UK a tenant can be evicted within three months. If we could adopt a similar model to the UK regarding evictions then the number of small landlords leaving the market would reduce rather than be increasing.
Just because the rental market provides a basic need does not mean it should be treated differently. After all the grocery business supplies an even more basic need, no one is suggesting that Dunnes Stores should be compelled to give away loaves of bread. If a person took one without paying they would face the criminal law.
I agree with you here, very few landlords can be operating at a loss at present. But why on earth should they not seek to maximise profits. Thats the way capitalism is supposed to work. You might prefer a different system, I might agree with you, but until you develop a better system, it is unreasonable to criticise the landlord for operating the present capitalist system.
As far as bank funding non property related business, I agree completely. I once went to a bank with a loan application, to expand an existing business. I had significant experience in the sector, a track record of sales and profits and a very detailed business plan. The bank manager looked at the cover and said, "but where is your security?".
An excellent point, a landlord has to be smarted or harder working than a bank to make a profit. That is not hard. While obviously many landlords did fail over recent years I do not agree that the sector is unsustainable. Many tenants and prospective tenants are unable or unwilling to save a deposit, and commit to a 25 year mortgage. By putting up this capital and taking on this commitment the landlord is bringing real value to the table.
Fair point. But the law should support the landlord to the extent of allowing him to evict a tenant who is not paying rent, in a reasonably efficient manner.
RETIRED2017
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When you see the tax landlords have to pay and how the cannot off set any of it like there tenant can ,The real boyd barrett in centre right clothing you are not watching ,There are non so blind as those who will not see,
There is a good chance the tenant not paying there rent is waiting for one of they centre right parties to get them a house using the tax taken off landlords ,
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The thread is about not paying rent. You want to derail it about something else. Maximising profit and ending tenancies for other reasons is frequent trait of big business. Which your proposing as solution.
Good luck with that...
TheBigShort
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I was responding to delfio's previous comment which referenced TD's advising to stay in the property for as long as possible. I think the assumption was made that these were non-paying tenants, whereas, the report I heard this morning implied rent paying tenants whose tenancy agreements had expired.
If you have issue with the topic being 'derailed', respond accordingly to delfio please.
Now you sound like a centre right Irish politician speaking on RTE who wants to get paid and avoid doing there job ,The people who can and do not pay there rent love that kind of guy he is the reason why,
All I meant was the housing and rental markets are different the world over. Ask a vague questions get a vague answer.
I have no idea what your comment is about.
Why quote me then?
Even if you are paying rent why should you have an indefinite contract or lease?
If I want a fixed rate mortgage, I usually have to pay extra for it. Why should I not get a long term lease if I want to rent somewhere long term?
I feel for the tenants. But I think the Govt lack of action and lack of fair rules and regulation is to blame here.
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