Tenant late with rent numerous times.

Afuera

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just to update everyone. Tenants are now screaming at me down the phone calling me a callous cold B*tch. She said how could i put her 4 children out on the street coming up to christmas.

to cut a long story short.... i basically told her this is business and she simply cant live in my house rent free... 7pm this coming Thurs is their dead line to be out. I asked her to make sure the house is given back in the same condition etc... i did also say to her that im very offended at her name-calling. I told her never in my wildest dreams did i think i would ever have to make such a difficult decision. Im only human too and its been very hard for me... she was hysterical on the phone to the point that she had to hang up to vomit!!!! (she told me this when i called her back later now)......

:(
Be careful here. I just noticed that you only gave them a weeks notice to vacate the property. As far as I know, your notice of termination is invalid, as you should have given them 28 days. I hope they don't throw that back in your face and refuse to move out next Thursday (they would be legally entitled to do this). If that happened you would have to send out a valid termination notice giving them another 28 days and would unfortunately drag this episode out further.
 

hmmm

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7 day notice for a family to leave? Appalling. It doesn't matter what your lease says, the tenants have rights which supercede this lease and unless the rent is over 28 days overdue they are entitled to their fully notice period. I have to say I find your attitude as expressed in your expectations for tenants to supply lawnmowers and fix appliances really reflects the lack of professionalism that is shown by many landlords in this country. Do you think being a landlord involves purely watching the money enter your account?

In case you were thinking of doing so, I would strongly suggest you do not try to enter the house next Thursday without taking some legal advice.
 

ClubMan

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If the previous posts are accurate then you really should be getting professional advice on these matters - and maybe not posting here where your tenants may be reading too!
 

Bronte

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One acre of grass to cut is a lot, I can't see many tenants being able to manage this. I recommend that for the next tenancy you state clearly who is responsible for it. Personally I'd find out the cost of getting a professional to cut the grass and increase the rent to cover this amount if need be.
I also think in this case it might be a lot easier to get rid of your tenant if you change tack, are very nice to her, sympathetic with her plight while emphasing that you have to pay the mortgage and tell her you'll give her all her deposit back without any inspection. Believe me this is the cheaper option. Otherwise she might decide she now has nothing to lose by just staying there.
 

truthseeker

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7 day notice for a family to leave? Appalling.
hmmm - if you read back through the posts the OP actually didnt ask the tenants to leave at all - the tenant told the OP that she was moving out:

Just to update everyone.... The tenant contacted me via text. She`s absolutely fuming at me over my letter and told me shes moving out and shes wants her deposit back NOW!
They were offered the choice to actually pay the rent and the response was that the tenants chose to leave.

shootingstar I do not think you should feel bad over this, as other posters have said, this is a business, not a charity.

You have already sought legal advice (from previous posts), Im sure that whatever way you conduct this is in accordance with the advice you received?

On the abusive phonecall from the tenant - Im surprised you stayed on the phone - I would have stated that this was unacceptable behaviour and that you would speak to her when she could keep a civil tongue in her head.
 

Mel

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On the grass-cutting - I remarked to my relative once that there was a lot of upkeep in 2 large lawns and hedging on top of own house, and he said that it was a good way to keep an eye on the place without annoying the residents - you pop in regularly and can see pretty clearly how well the place is being kept. Just something to keep in mind.
 

shootingstar

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hmmm - if you read back through the posts the OP actually didnt ask the tenants to leave at all - the tenant told the OP that she was moving out:



They were offered the choice to actually pay the rent and the response was that the tenants chose to leave.

shootingstar I do not think you should feel bad over this, as other posters have said, this is a business, not a charity.

You have already sought legal advice (from previous posts), Im sure that whatever way you conduct this is in accordance with the advice you received?

On the abusive phonecall from the tenant - Im surprised you stayed on the phone - I would have stated that this was unacceptable behaviour and that you would speak to her when she could keep a civil tongue in her head.
Truthseeker thank you so much for your post. its very re-assuring...

Again, this was my first letting. My solicitor had the lease drawn up for me. The 5 days notice came from him, not me. I had no idea at the time how it worked. They signed the lease based on all the conditions including 5 days notice.

I also believe no other landlord would tolerate this from their tenants, they would simply give them notice full stop. I have given them a few opportunities to pay rent. I gave them options each time.

I did tolerate her abusive phone call, I didnt want to put the phone down on her. She was very distressed and i wanted to calm her down. I dont like to see anyone in such a panic state but there was nothing i could... I was actually apologising to her !!!!!! I dont normally have confrontations with people so this did knock me off my feet a bit.

My neighbour from down there rang me last nigt asking what was happening. I said how do u know about all this and he told me that their kids in the school said they were leaving on Thursday... Oh my god i nearly fell over. But what can i do...

Clubman - im not going to get into it but i can assure you there not reading these posts.

Also i got a quote from the local gardiner down there he quoted me 70.00 per cut!!! Argh.... im going to purchase a lawn mower this weekend for the house... im seriously broke !
 
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truthseeker

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shootingstar, if your solicitor is handling the legal end of things and you are following his/her legal advice then all you need worry about are your own personal feelings on the situation.

From what you have described here it sounds to me like you are being perfectly reasonable. You do not have a relationship with these people beyond business. Yes, its sad that a family have to move out, yes, its close to christmas, yes, its sad that some people have financial problems etc.... but at the end of the day none of this is your fault. You dont hold any responsibility to these people beyond a business relationship. From what you have stated here you have upheld your responsibilities as a landlord.

You have asked questions regarding grass cutting/appliances etc... Every landlord has to start learning somewhere. There is a first time for everyone.

You have a responsibility to ensure that you are acting in accordance with the law - again, presumably your solicitor is on the case with this.

This is not a situation that has occured out of the blue. You have had problems with these tenants, and it has now reached a point where you need to terminate the arrangement. If thay had abided by the terms of the arrangement in the first place they wouldnt be in this position.
 

Afuera

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My solicitor had the lease drawn up for me. The 5 days notice came from him, not me. I had no idea at the time how it worked. They signed the lease based on all the conditions including 5 days notice.
This is definately illegal and your solicitor should know better than that. You can't specify a notice period in the lease that is shorter than those specified in the Residential Tenancies Act 2004. From what you have said though, it appears that the tenants have accepted the short notice and are getting ready to move. If they didn't accept it though they could create a whole lot of problems for you. I'd advise you to get a new solicitor to draft your next lease.
 

Afuera

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From what you have stated here you have upheld your responsibilities as a landlord.
One of the obligations of the landlord is to give adequate notice. This has not been done here. If they took this to the PRTB they would certainly rule in favour of the tenants on this.
 

truthseeker

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One of the obligations of the landlord is to give adequate notice. This has not been done here. If they took this to the PRTB they would certainly rule in favour of the tenants on this.
The OP acted on the advice of her solicitor.
Who in this case is responsible if an error is made - the OP or the solicitor?
 

shootingstar

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This is definately illegal and your solicitor should know better than that. You can't specify a notice period in the lease that is shorter than those specified in the Residential Tenancies Act 2004. From what you have said though, it appears that the tenants have accepted the short notice and are getting ready to move. If they didn't accept it though they could create a whole lot of problems for you. I'd advise you to get a new solicitor to draft your next lease.
Hi Afuera.... yikes!! i assume your a solicitor? ok so your telling me the 5 days notice shouldnt have been submitted right?

i know very little about the law but i would have assumed that 28 days could be given for notice once the lease has been abided by each party and 5 days if the lease has been broken. The tenant has broken their agreement so am i not within my rights? Will definately give solicitor a call after lunch all the same though...

Just to confirm they pay weekly and not monthly. dont know if this helps...
 

Afuera

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The OP acted on the advice of her solicitor.
Who in this case is responsible if an error is made - the OP or the solicitor?
Ultimately the OP is responsible for their property, not the solicitor. If the PTRB became involved the case would be taken against the OP and any fines would be payable by them. All landlords should know what their obligations and rights are... there's definately a case to be made for introducing a licensing system whereby prospective landlords need to pass a test before they can rent out their property.
 

Bronte

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And maybe solicitors need to pass a test on correct notice to tenant's in leases..........
 

Stifster

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there's definately a case to be made for introducing a licensing system whereby prospective landlords need to pass a test before they can rent out their property.
All that sensible talk and now you are taking the mick! Perhaps the PRTB would get the job and it would take 5 years before you get an appointment with them.....
 

Afuera

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Hi Afuera.... yikes!! i assume your a solicitor? ok so your telling me the 5 days notice shouldnt have been submitted right?
Hi shootingstar, I'm not a solicitor but have had to deal with this area of the law in the past (receiving inadequate notice). In fairness, it's quite clearly explained on any of the documentation that you can obtain from the PRTB. Page 5 of the Quick Guide to the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 lays it out in plain English:
http://www.prtb.ie/DownloadDocs/Residential Tenancies Act 2004 - A Quick Guide.pdf

i know very little about the law but i would have assumed that 28 days could be given for notice once the lease has been abided by each party and 5 days if the lease has been broken. The tenant has broken their agreement so am i not within my rights? Will definately give solicitor a call after lunch all the same though...
7 day notice periods are only used for serious anti-social behaviour. Otherwise, it has to be a minimum of 28 days.

Just to confirm they pay weekly and not monthly. dont know if this helps...
It makes no difference.
 

truthseeker

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Ultimately the OP is responsible for their property, not the solicitor. If the PTRB became involved the case would be taken against the OP and any fines would be payable by them. All landlords should know what their obligations and rights are... there's definately a case to be made for introducing a licensing system whereby prospective landlords need to pass a test before they can rent out their property.
Yes, I understand what you are saying.
If the OP wasnt using a solicitor then I would expect the OP to know the ins and outs of the legal aspects of being a landlord, but I assume she engaged a solicitor to advise her on these aspects.

I do think that a test for prospective landlords would be worthwhile.

From a purely rhetorical point of view - the OP could surely sue her solicitor for incorrect legal advice in the event that PTRB took a case against the OP?
 

Duplex

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shootingstar

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well ive given them short notice and they seem to be accepting it, even though their screaming at me..

Been sitting here all morning again thinking about it. I seem to do nothing else these past couple of days... and then i remembered this - when i first showed her and her hubby the house i asked her what kind of notice did she have to give on her last place and she said "only a week, he can F off, hes a crap landlord and has done nothing for us"... How well she can give him a weeks notice but i get a slapped wrist for doing it :(

My dad doesnt think i should rent it out for a while. He thinks i should have a good think about it.

A social worker called me about 20 minutes ago on my personal mobile asking if she could speak to me regarding the tenants / situation etc i told her no way, that i was in work and i didnt want to discuss it. Im definately getting tougher as a person.
 
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pc7

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shootingstar, that comment he can f off was a signal!! Don't let it put you off there are plenty of decent tenants out there looking for a home. Just be a little pickier next time or pay an agents fee to deal with it, it usually costs a months rent but takes the hassle from you. You could also specity professionals only and check references. Good luck with it stay strong!
 
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