State Pension 67 in 2021, 68 in 2028

ashambles

Frequent Poster
Messages
449
- Just worked out if a private sector worker starting on €20,000 a year, invested 6.5% of their salary for 40 years, they would have €322,621 at the end. This assumes growth of 6% per annum and a pay increase of 3% each year.
You've ignored inflation.

If you want a salary growth of 3% - it's likely inflation around 3% as well. In that case the present value of 322k using the rest of your figures would be 100k.

However Irish life use a figure of 3.35% - 0.7% for charges as their current assumption for fund growth. For salary growth the use 1.5% and inflation @ 2.5%

With Irish life pension growth figures I'd guess the PV of someone on 20k putting 6.5% per annum away at more like 70k as an end fund.
 

josh8267

Registered User
Messages
95
That article is a hatchet job. In this example, the public servant has contributed to their pension for 40 year as well as their PRSI contributions. They are compared to someone who has never contributed to a private pension in their life, just their PRSI.

Why not compare what the situation would be if they had contributed 6.5% of salary to a defined contribution pension for 40 years?
- Just worked out if a private sector worker starting on €20,000 a year, invested 6.5% of their salary for 40 years, they would have €322,621 at the end. This assumes growth of 6% per annum and a pay increase of 3% each year.

It also highlights the benefits of being in a union, a body that a lot of private sector workers won't pay for.

Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie
First I will deal with the Union Issue you brought up ,
Private sectors workers in a union Are second class members when it comes to the golden goose,
In the public sector if there was any move on pensions the unions would be shouting from the roof tops The same unions never ever gave a dam
for the private sector worker, The LABOUR party never gave a dam about the private sector worker

The Labour party and there Unions only ever seen the private sector workers as a rich seam to mine for there own benefit and FF/FG know this so they never had to worry about how the treated the private sector worker,

If you want proof of this Just look at the PRSI public service up until 1995 total stopped from payroll 1,96%

now look at the Private sector sector average PRSI stopped up until the USC came close to 20% of payroll

FF/FG with LABOURS help set about increasing the age to 68 for the Private sector worker who seen 20% of payroll taken in PRSI and at the same time give supplement payment to another Group paying the same PRSI to match the people paying 1.96 PRSI,

Private sector workers don't need to join a Union the need to find a party other than FF/FG and Labour to vote for,

Then you will see FF/FG LABOUR types of this world turning on the SBarrets of this world,

My late father always voted for FF but I heard him say many a time if the ever get cornered to survive they would eat there own,

You will find most of the people who hold a views like yours pay 4% PRSI self employed Rate and just in case you don't know it only came in to force in 1988,go check,


There was not a peep out of the unions in the private sector They have lots of second class members they knew will as did the labour party ,
Joan Burton was the Minister in the Department dealing with pensions, until 2016,

All of the Main political parties in Ireland Treat the private sector workers and there employers with Contempt, they just see then as an easy target to rip off every chance the get,
I don't mind them being ripped off they deserve it , I pity high earners and people who have wealth tied up in Ireland ,
The sham of voting out FF and Putting FG in and expecting things to be better for the two million private sector workers is coming to an end

The Good news is the first to be hit will be the tax relief on pensions no more easy money for the smug feeding off the golden goose , I will be sorry to see high earners getting caught But most of them think FF/FG are the God that keeps giving,


If you want to know why this is so look no further than the virgin media debate last night ,

What we seen last night was the same party but two sections one called FF and the other section Called FG both would be well aware of the un fairness of the pension system both had a hand in putting in place (SO BOTH NEW but one would never hang out the other Both joined At The Hip ,when it comes to the Private sector workers,

In fact one of the FF ministers at the time the changes were announced stated we have to increase the age because we cant afford it,
only to retire at fifty and draw her pension not a peep out of FG you will notice,
I expect FF/FG/LAB Golden circle will be very quite and let this blow over,
 
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MrEarl

Frequent Poster
Messages
1,957
These haven't too much to worry about as regards their pension.


View attachment 4234
There are so many valid points being made in this discussion thread that we should really split it into a few discussion threads at this stage....

But that image showing what the retiring politicians are taking as pensions, is one that seems to have been missed, and shouldn't have been....

While we've all the politicians running around promising us the earth, moon and stars... The first thing that we should demand that they should be doing, but they won't, is to bring their own pensions closer in line with everyone elses!
 

josh8267

Registered User
Messages
95
There are so many valid points being made in this discussion thread that we should really split it into a few discussion threads at this stage....

But that image showing what the retiring politicians are taking as pensions, is one that seems to have been missed, and shouldn't have been....

While we've all the politicians running around promising us the earth, moon and stars... The first thing that we should demand that they should be doing, but they won't, is to bring their own pensions closer in line with everyone elses!
MrEarl
What about The poor or should I say Smug tax planners and Pension Advisors they would be down quite a lot
Surely you know the would have to close lots of private sector pension loop holes,in a QUID PRO QUO Move,
just thinking about all the poor people affected if they started closing golden handshakes tax planning,
 
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hunter1

Registered User
Messages
53
That article is a hatchet job. In this example, the public servant has contributed to their pension for 40 year as well as their PRSI contributions. They are compared to someone who has never contributed to a private pension in their life, just their PRSI.

Why not compare what the situation would be if they had contributed 6.5% of salary to a defined contribution pension for 40 years?
- Just worked out if a private sector worker starting on €20,000 a year, invested 6.5% of their salary for 40 years, they would have €322,621 at the end. This assumes growth of 6% per annum and a pay increase of 3% each year.

It also highlights the benefits of being in a union, a body that a lot of private sector workers won't pay for.

Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie
Why would I make that comparison, the article is not about the occupational part of the pension, it's about the State Pension.
 

josh8267

Registered User
Messages
95
Why would I make that comparison, the article is not about the occupational part of the pension, it's about the State Pension.
I get what you are posting lots don't , lots pretend down my neck of the woods not to understand because they know well the PRSI will have to be reformed hitting the people under paying at present for there state pension,
Down where I live the people saying the don't mind seeing the age going to 68 have one thing in common they never payed much PRSI and were in a position to divert the savings into a private pension and get a tax break off the people who they expect to work to 68,
 

josh8267

Registered User
Messages
95
Public servants don't receive the State pension earlier than anyone else.
I am retired I meet up with all types of retired people,I have being in a discussion where one of the retirees was a retired public servant who started work in 1995/96 under the new scheme (her sister started under the old D stamp a few weeks before her), She took the side of Charlie on it, She said she still had the direct read charts showing her pension deductions, she is well clued in on pensions along with being very fair minded person,
 
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hunter1

Registered User
Messages
53
Public servants don't receive the State pension earlier than anyone else.
I know and I didn't say otherwise if I can refer you back to the article:

"Her public service pension is worked out at €27,045 a year. When this is added to the State pension of €12,956 gives her a 50pc final salary pension, according to calculations by pensions expert Tony Gilhawley of Technical Guidance.

But she won't get the State pension until she is 67.

Provided she is not working, her public service employer will pay her a 'supplementary pension' of €12,956 a year between retirement at 64 and State pension age at 67."


While not in receipt of the actual State Pension, they will receive the same rate as it to bring their pensions up to (insert) /80ths as per the terms of their retirement package.
 

hunter1

Registered User
Messages
53
I get what you are posting lots don't , lots pretend down my neck of the woods not to understand because they know well the PRSI will have to be reformed hitting the people under paying at present for there state pension,
Down where I live the people saying the don't mind seeing the age going to 68 have one thing in common they never payed much PRSI and were in a position to divert the savings into a private pension and get a tax break off the people who they expect to work to 68,
But doesn't the change in the state pension age affect private pensions too? Aren't they now "integrated" with the State pension and therefore they now won't receive the state pension part until they reach the age?
 

SBarrett

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Messages
3,489
I know and I didn't say otherwise if I can refer you back to the article:

"Her public service pension is worked out at €27,045 a year. When this is added to the State pension of €12,956 gives her a 50pc final salary pension, according to calculations by pensions expert Tony Gilhawley of Technical Guidance.

But she won't get the State pension until she is 67.

Provided she is not working, her public service employer will pay her a 'supplementary pension' of €12,956 a year between retirement at 64 and State pension age at 67."


While not in receipt of the actual State Pension, they will receive the same rate as it to bring their pensions up to (insert) /80ths as per the terms of their retirement package.
That is the terms of their occupational pension scheme that was negotiated years back. Public servants contribute to this scheme from day 1 in the public service. They also pay the Additional Superannuation Contribution as well as their PRSI contributions.

It is completely different to someone who just pays their PRSI contributions.


Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie
 

josh8267

Registered User
Messages
95
But doesn't the change in the state pension age affect private pensions too? Aren't they now "integrated" with the State pension and therefore they now won't receive the state pension part until they reach the age?
Private sector no,
Just for the record I was out for coffee with some retirees today the increasing of the pension age came up , all of the public service retirees in the group agree it is unfair on the private sector worker to increase pension age,there are of the view anyone they came across supporting increasing pension are well off out of touch types,
 
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hunter1

Registered User
Messages
53
That is the terms of their occupational pension scheme that was negotiated years back. Public servants contribute to this scheme from day 1 in the public service. They also pay the Additional Superannuation Contribution as well as their PRSI contributions.

It is completely different to someone who just pays their PRSI contributions.


Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie
How is it different?

In relation to the State Pension, nobody is being treated differently, we all have the same PRSI requirements and we all have to be the correct age to receive the pension.
 

hunter1

Registered User
Messages
53
Private sector no,
Just for the record I was out for coffee with some retirees today the increasing of the pension age came up , all of the public service retirees in the group agree it is unfair on the private sector worker to increase pension age,
But the increase applies to everyone because as Steven pointed out, nobody receives the State Pension until they reach that age, maybe Private pensions have allowed for this - so the only people really suffering from the age increase are those who don't have a private pension, which is a lot of people.
 

josh8267

Registered User
Messages
95
But the increase applies to everyone because as Steven pointed out, nobody receives the State Pension until they reach that age, maybe Private pensions have allowed for this - so the only people really suffering from the age increase are those who don't have a private pension, which is a lot of people.
That is private pension sales talk, I don't want to muddy the waters so to speak , to be fair to the public servants I know and understand pensions say Charley Weston is correct ,others who say different Don't fully understand,
 

hunter1

Registered User
Messages
53
That is private pension sales talk, I don't want to muddy the waters so to speak , to be fair to the public servants I know and understand pensions say Charley Weston is correct ,others who say different Don't fully understand,
What is private pension sales talk?

Just to add, I too think Charlie is correct in respect of us receiving our full pension entitlements when we retire through this supplementary pension, this was my initial query when I found this site.

I was told a load of nonsense, which I have subsequently queried again and am awaiting a response.
 

josh8267

Registered User
Messages
95
What is private pension sales talk?

Just to add, I too think Charlie is correct in respect of us receiving our full pension entitlements when we retire through this supplementary pension, this was my initial query when I found this site.

I was told a load of nonsense, which I have subsequently queried again and am awaiting a response.
Hi Hunter
are you public or private sector,
 

sidzer

Frequent Poster
Messages
126
This is one of very few unpopular but prudent decisions made by a government that I'm aware of. It makes perfect sense to increase the retirement age as people live longer and in better health.
However, they have very different rules for themselves and i don't hear sinn fein or labour complaining
 
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