Some people are wrongly attributing their problems to their loss of their tracker.

joe351980

Frequent Poster
Messages
94
If someone was in arrears of 50,000 due to an added 20,000 over charge you can't say that they may have committed suicide without the overcharge. They already were in arrears of 30 and could get through it.

Where or what is the straw????
 

PFS7979

Frequent Poster
Messages
150
Hi PF

This is completely a new category for me. People have been taken off their trackers for getting married.


Brendan
Who was taken off trackers for getting married? Never did I make such an obsurd statement.

But there are cases where both husband and wife, home owners and mortgage holders on an individual basis before getting married who have had both trackers rates taken off them incorrectly.
 

Brendan Burgess

Founder
Messages
37,956
Who was taken off trackers for getting married? Never did I make such an obsurd statement.

But there are cases where both husband and wife, home owners and mortgage holders on an individual basis before getting married who have had both trackers rates taken off them incorrectly.
Sorry PFS

I am finding it very difficult to understand you. You linked getting married to losing trackers and now you say this is absurd, which I agree with.


Can you specify exactly what happened in the case you are talking about and why they "had both trackers taken off them".

Brendan
 

peemac

Frequent Poster
Messages
641
I can certainly see where this is coming from and you see it in many guises.

I sell smelly candles. A few years ago an irate customer blamed me for a fire in his house because he bought the candle from me.
The candle did contribute to the fire, but the main cause was because he put it on a window beside net curtains which caught fire from the normal flame of the candle.

So it was his stupidity rather than the candle, but I couldn't say that, but the fire report did.

People, when they have problems, always want to look to blame someone else for what in some circumstances are their own shortcomings especially if its "the big bad bank / company / brand" - quite natural to do so.
 

Just saying

Registered User
Messages
2
Hi all, off topic maybe, but for the sake of the sensitivity of the issue's being addressed I would just like to clarify: To "Commit" in the case of suicide is to insinuate a crime took place. Such as in for example, to commit a crime. Suicide is no longer a crime as far as I am aware. Therefore, the correct terminology would be to say; "one took one's own life", or "died by suicide". This is not to criticise, just to give clarification. It's a sensitive area, so for the respect of others going forward who might be directly affected, careful language in regards to suicide should try to be used. Kind Regards.
 

Sligolive

Frequent Poster
Messages
58
Brendan, I think your analysis may be overly simplistic and does not take account of all other sources of finance that may have been exhausted by impacted customers. I also feel that the thread may not be the most appropriate platform to discuss such sensitive matters such as suicide.
 

PFS7979

Frequent Poster
Messages
150
Brendan,

Simple as this: my wife lost her property and her lender acknowledged significant overcharging. I have received consistent professional opinion that my mortgage is impacted.

I find this thread pointless at best. I suggest taking it on board and moving on.. your web site on the whole is an excellent and helpful resource and well done for that.
 

Just saying

Registered User
Messages
2
In quantitative terms Brendan's analysis in his view does make sense, especially when viewed through a balance sheet. However, if viewed at in qualitative terms it becomes a little more complex. For instance, the Irish banking crisis, and the bailing out of bondholders etc. People losing employment as a direct result of this, and the recession. To say people who got into serious arrears due to employment loss are just looking for someone to blame is a bit of a broad statement Peemac. Especially when you consider the time period this relates to in economic terms. If people were wrongly taken advantage of as a result of the tracker scandal, then that in and of itself is a crime/fraud. So yes, even those who fell behind on arrears have a right to voice their grievances, whether or not they are due compensation.
 

LS400

Frequent Poster
Messages
506
It's a perfectly just Title and Tread, and for what it's worth I believe it to be factual.

Don't start asking it to be backed up with this or that, it's my belief, but some here seem to think that if you agree with with the OP, you are a heartless individual.

Suicide is devastating for all concerned, let's not throw it into every discussion, just to get your point across.
 

moneymakeover

Frequent Poster
Messages
459
Increase in taxes.... The banks
USC....... The banks
Drop in rental income..... The banks
Pay freeze/ job loss... The banks
Drop off in construction... The banks
Invalid removal of tracker... The banks

Note person with rental property paying interest only goes from 1.1% to 5.6% (BOI)
Repayments say €500 jump to €2,500

Who to thank for harassing phone calls to both husband and wife? Daily. Multiple times per day.
 

Brendan Burgess

Founder
Messages
37,956
Simple as this: my wife lost her property and her lender acknowledged significant overcharging. I have received consistent professional opinion that my mortgage is impacted.
That is not simple. That is just a bit of a story.

And what has that to do with marriage?

Sorry, but you are making no sense at all.

Brendan
 

moneymakeover

Frequent Poster
Messages
459
10 years interest only originally.. I would expect that could have be renewed or switched
originally SVR
Switched to Tracker
Switched to Fixed... 5 years in 2012 ... not returned
Still not deemed impacted
 

PFS7979

Frequent Poster
Messages
150
Brendan,

Re-read my original post. The point I was making, was to explain how how my wife and I came to holding two tracker mortgages. We each bought independently before we met. Thereafter both our lenders mishandled and overcharged both mortgages.

Its pretty damn simple when the lender overcharges. If you wish to find fault or pick holes in my choice of words when articulating a point go ahead. I'll leave it that.
 

Jespie1

Registered User
Messages
26
It's a perfectly just Title and Tread, and for what it's worth I believe it to be factual.

Don't start asking it to be backed up with this or that, it's my belief, but some here seem to think that if you agree with with the OP, you are a heartless individual.

Suicide is devastating for all concerned, let's not throw it into every discussion, just to get your point across.
This was not a flippant comment LS400. We as a family have been through the mill the last couple of years. Thankfully I found my spouse in time as I happened to come home from work early He was working every hour to make sure our mortgage was always paid. He completely burned out and I don't want to think about what would have happened if I did not happen to come home early that day. So please can you just think about what you are saying before putting it for all to see. Honestly nI'm so shocked by how this thread has gone. We are very lucky that we have a fantastic extended family that helped us.
 

gnf_ireland

Frequent Poster
Messages
1,367
Maybe I could break them down into sub-groups - kept out of arrears with difficulty or overcharge didn't affect them.
@Brendan Burgess I am not sure of too many people who would not be affected by being charged between 2% and 3.5% higher interest rates. Very high earners would most likely have higher mortgages, especially if they are boom time as a lot of people extended themselves. Chances are everyone would be impacted.

Lets say couple E is relatively comfortable, has a mortgage of say 400k, 2 kids and combined income of 200k. They have paid 500 euro a month extra on the mortgage - so over 8 years this is ~50k. But they managed to pay it, save some money, go on holidays, upgrade the car etc.

BUT, they may have done things differently for the last 8 years if they had not had to pay the money. Maybe one of them would have taken a VL package being offered at work to allow them spend more time at home with the family. Maybe one of them would have gone to a 3 or 4 day week to ensure a better work-life balance; maybe they would have done some further education at some stage along the way; maybe they would have taken a once in a lifetime 2 month break in the Australia with the kids; maybe they would have pumped that extra money into a pension fund and be in a much better position to retire early - who knows!

Or maybe they went further and because they were paying 4.5%, they actually overpaid the mortgage further to try and reduce the burden of the debt. So instead of being down 50k, they are actually down 100k (cashflow wise).

Or maybe its as silly as deciding they could not justify spending 5-7k on to go on the Lions Tour in 2013 to relive the memories with some good friends from when they were backpacking in Australia in 2001 and now one of those friends has passed away so they will never get that chance again !

Or maybe its as nasty as knowing they have to stay in a job they hate, with a boss who bullies them/harasses them, as they know they need the high paying job to keep the ship afloat, and the mental health issues that has resulted over the years from this entrapment.

Either way, I cannot see any scenario where someone would not be impacted by this, no matter how wealthy. I agree, there are degrees of impact and they are probably the least impacted financially - but who knows what other non-financial impacts it may have had on them over the years, and these are the hardest to quantify.
 

joe351980

Frequent Poster
Messages
94
Very good point gnf. The cost to customers is far greater than the monetary value. And no spreadsheet can determine how much an individual was affected.
 

gnf_ireland

Frequent Poster
Messages
1,367
I have read the thread and it is a very sensitive topic to a lot of people. I think at an absolute stretch, it might be worth comparing it to say the Guildford 4 scenario (and I have said absolute stretch).

Using a spreadsheet, you could say that the 4 spent 16 years in prison and if you equate an average industrial wage of say 25k a year to them during this period, it equates to 400k lost income for being in jail. Add 25% 'compensation' and you get a nice even 500k calculation.

But, there are lots of factors individual to each of them:
1. The Conlon family suffered more than the others, as they were also caught up in the Maguire 7, and one of them passed away in jail
2. Hill was held after the acquittal for a second crime he was later acquitted for. Does this compound the suffering endured - I would assume it would and a form of extended bullying/harassment
3. Carol Richardson was 17 at the time, lost her 'lifeblood' to prison and died of cancer in 2013 (as did Gerry Conlon). How much of the 'causes' of the cancer were as a result of that 16 years in prison. By the time she was released from prison, she had spent practically half her life there.
4. Gerry Conlon is known to have turned to drink/drugs after his release - no doubt as a result of a dangerous cocktail of a substantial payout and coping with life on the outside
*I know very little about Paddy Armstrong so I will not comment*

The point being - on paper/spreadsheet they all suffered the same - 16 years in prison for a crime they did not commit.
In reality, their treatment in prison, how they coped both inside and when they were let out, the personal impacts of missing family occasions such as funerals etc means each case is unique and needs to be assessed on their own merits. This is practically impossible to do at scale, and even more so as to understand the full impact hindsight is required.

The only option is to try and categorise in some manner and try offer a level of compensation based on the non-financial impacts on the person, and support an independent resolution mechanism.
I don't think anyone would suggest that the same compensation should be given to someone who missed a Lions tour because they could not justify the cost should be compensated the same as someone who did not have a foreign family holiday for a decade, or someone who ended up feeding the kids beans & toast and wearing coats indoors to avoid turning on the heating. But on paper they all did not go into arrears, so are the same !
 
Top