Solicitor Anthony Joyce recommends against using independent appeals panels

Brendan Burgess

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total conflict of interest having any employee working on an appeals panel.
Hard to know. I understand that he acts completely independently. He might not even be based in the office.

Neither of the other two know anything about mortgages. So they would need some technical input. Anyway, he is outnumbered two to one.

That is the theory. In practice, their decisions have been very poor.


Brendan
 

gahfan

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"4) Go directly to the court and two years later your case is thrown out and there is a judgement against you for the bank's costs."

How likely do you think the above is Brendan? Perhaps not a question you can answer
 

Sarenco

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While I don't disagree with Brendan's view, a couple of points strike me as potentially relevant:-
  1. At this stage, some impacted borrowers may feel that they can only summon up the mental energy to go through one, and only one, more process; and
  2. Some borrowers may be concerned that any subsequent appeal will become time-barred under the applicable legislation.
 

SaySomething

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While I don't disagree with Brendan's view, a couple of points strike me as potentially relevant:-
  1. At this stage, some impacted borrowers may feel that they can only summon up the mental energy to go through one, and only one, more process; and
  2. Some borrowers may be concerned that any subsequent appeal will become time-barred under the applicable legislation.
@PadKiss said this at the Oireachtas committee that he was aware of at least 1 client who had reached the point where she'd had enough and wanted to settle. To be honest it's all dragging on so long the banks may be counting on it. Wear you down.
 

odyssey06

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Hard to know. I understand that he acts completely independently. He might not even be based in the office.
I don't see how anyone can act completely independently when the company pays the wages, controls future employment opportunities etc. The staff member, even if they are a 'saint', should not be placed in a position of conflict of interest.

It's not an independent panel if a staff member is on it. Anyone asked by the judge why they didn't use that particular appeals panel has an immediate answer right there.
 

Brendan Burgess

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It's not an independent panel if a staff member is on it. Anyone asked by the judge why they didn't use that particular appeals panel has an immediate answer right there.
No, they don't.

If you go to the FSO, you will be asked if you used the bank's internal complaints process first. You might not be happy with the internal complaints process or their decisions, but you have to use them first.

If ptsb had three employees on this appeals panel, I would still recommend using it. You have nothing to lose. The worst that can happen is that they make a biased stupid unfair decision against you. Then you go to the court or the FSO.

The best that can happen is that you ask for €10,000 and they award you €10,000.

It's a free shot.

Brendan
 

odyssey06

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No, they don't.
If you go to the FSO, you will be asked if you used the bank's internal complaints process first. You might not be happy with the internal complaints process or their decisions, but you have to use them first.
It's not clear to me that "internal complaints process" and "independent appeals process" are the same thing?
 

Brendan Burgess

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They are not the same thing.

The point I was trying to make is that in the ordinary course of events if you have a complaint against a financial services provider, you must use their internal complaints procedure first which is not in any way independent. If you are not happy with the way that they resolve the complaint, you go to court or the FSO.

Bad as the ptsb CAP is, at least two of the members are independent.

Brendan
 

joe351980

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How do you calculate what compensation you're entitled too. Even if you went in looking for 10,000 you could actually be entitled to more. Would the appeals panel abrove an amount greater than requested.Would employing a lawyer like AJ not ensure that a full and final outcome would materialise
 

gahfan

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Regarding the court being held in public or people having to attend what Anthony Joyce's office have said is that they hope that a sample of cases will be heard and all others will then be determined on that basis rather than each and every case coming before the courts.
 

Brendan Burgess

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what Anthony Joyce's office have said is that they hope that a sample of cases will be heard and all others will then be determined on that basis rather than each and every case coming before the courts.

Whatever about a sample case on an issue such as the interpretation of the meaning of "prevailing rate", it is not possible to have any form of "class action" on an individual's claim for compensation.

Brendan
 

gahfan

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Well perhaps some form of mediation with p tsb on the basis of the court ruling that the levels of compensation were inadequate.
 

lolopops

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I am with Anthony Joyce Solicitors, proceeedings have been issued on the bank but they have not responded and no cases have been heard in court yet, the intention is to push forward the most emotive ones to form a precendent and then settle on the rest. I sought advice from several solicitors before deciding what to do. I decided against going to the appeals panel as my life was made hell by that bank for years and I did not trust an 'independent' panel chosen by them, looking at the figures on the amount of unsuccessful appeals I am glad I didn't. The bank has already admitted liabilty so it is not a question of proving thier liability it is a question of showing that the compensation they offered was insufficient, I don't think this will be difficult. The solictors will recover thier fees from the bank, yes the process is long but I am happy to wait to get what is deserved.
 

Brendan Burgess

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Hi lolo

You clearly do not understand the process.

They did not offer compensation. They paid it. You were free to accept it and then to ask for more.

The record of the appeals panel has been poor but so what? It didn't cost anything to appeal and if they found against you, you could still go to the court.

I imagine that the judge will not be happy that you did not exhaust the company's appeals process first.

By the way, why did you not go to the FSO?

What have you agreed with Anthony Joyce regarding fees?

Brendan
 

gahfan

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Yes Brendan you made the same point to me as lolopops and maybe I should have appealed through the panel also.

I am also with A Joyce and I suppose we are assuming we are likely to win the case but perhaps that is not the case and we are/were a bit naive
 

Andy836

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Yes Brendan you made the same point to me as lolopops and maybe I should have appealed through the panel also.

I am also with A Joyce and I suppose we are assuming we are likely to win the case but perhaps that is not the case and we are/were a bit naive
What is the fee he's charging you?
 

gahfan

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Hi Andy836, i't's a no win/no fee basis, only the e400 independent legal advice fee. What about you?
 
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