Solar Energy Installers taking deposits and going bust.

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MrEarl

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Hello,

For anyone who has looked into getting solar panels, heat pumps etc. installed in/at their homes, two things will have quickly become apparent:

* There are lots and lots of businesses competing in the marketplace

* Most want customers to pay hefty deposits, ranging from 30% - 50%, at time of order.

Scratch a little below the surface and then you realise - many of these businesses are relatively small, often with limited assets. Many have also only been established, in the last few years.

There's no consumer protection, for when things go wrong (for example, if a supplier goes bust, after taking your deposit)

There's a relatively high profile installation company having recently gone bust, which has brought this issue to the front of my mind.

Asking people to pay 30% - 50% of the price of a new solar panel system, or other similar expensive kit, is fundamentally wrong. We aren't talking about specialist, made to order equipment, and there isn't a lot of labour needed, prior to the day of installation.

Title to the equipment (solar panels, batteries, heatpumps etc.) doesn't pass to the customer, on the day the deposit is paid.

So, you are essentially being pressed to pay up to half of the purchase price for no good reason, other than to perhaps fund the installers working capital.

This industry needs to be regulated and quickly, otherwise we're going to have a lot of people losing a lot of money, with no come back.

My personal view, is that all suppliers and installers should be forced to get a Bond, as required of all Travel Agents, to protect customers, if something goes wrong. Either that, or installers and suppliers get told to take a hike, if they ask for anything more than a modest booking deposit, when a customer places an order. However, right now, it seems that demand is high, so installers and suppliers are getting to dictate terms.
 
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Good point alerting people to be careful, but...

We have too much regulation in the country. We do not need a Solar Panel Regulatory Authority which will costs millions of euros a year in taxpayers' money to protect a few deposits.

The solution is easy enough. As with any deposit, pay it with a credit card or debit card and you can reclaim it from the credit card company if the company goes bust.

Brendan
 
The vast majority of what people pay these people is the installation labour costs and profit - the actual panels themselves are reaonably inexpensive. A deposit prior to works is standard practice though for most services like this.
 
Brendan Burgess said:
Good point alerting people to be careful, but...

We have too much regulation in the country. We do not need a Solar Panel Regulatory Authority which will costs millions of euros a year in taxpayers' money to protect a few deposits.

The solution is easy enough. As with any deposit, pay it with a credit card or debit card and you can reclaim it from the credit card company if the company goes bust.

Brendan
Click to expand...

Agreed on the over regulation.

How does the protection offered by a credit card differ from that offered by a debit card?
 
Hello,

Anyone who has put a toe in the water, will quickly have discovered that most installers won't accept card payments. Those that do, seem to be very expensive, so you'll pay a hefty premium, to deal with them.
 
MrEarl said:
Hello,

Anyone who has put a toe in the water, will quickly have discovered that most installers won't accept card payments. Those that do, seem to be very expensive, so you'll pay a hefty premium, to deal with them.
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Are you serious? Wow. I would be very reluctant to deal with such companies (that refuse card payments).
 
The key problem is the high level of demand, it gives suppliers the ability to call the shots :(
 
Brendan Burgess said:
Good point alerting people to be careful, but...

We have too much regulation in the country. We do not need a Solar Panel Regulatory Authority which will costs millions of euros a year in taxpayers' money to protect a few deposits.

The solution is easy enough. As with any deposit, pay it with a credit card or debit card and you can reclaim it from the credit card company if the company goes bust.

Brendan
Click to expand...
But not for enforcement of building standards Brendan
 
Solar panels will be a scandal on prime time soon enough.

I did significant due diligence before buying mine. After 30 quotes I would say 15% max 20% of the installers are not taking the piss.

The majority of quotes I got were total gouging. I feel very strongly about what's going on and I fear for what old and vulnerable uninformed people are paying. Many people, perhaps close to a majority, will never seen a return on investment inside 15 years - which is truely shocking investment.

There are one or two large companies in bed with electrical providers and using the reputable brands to drive even higher prices, it's really bad.

There is no reason for deposits above 10-15%, there is almost no prework to do and they are so busy if you pull the plug there is a queue out the door to take your slot.

One of the worst tactics I have seen is a solar energy partnership sending letters to customers with medical devices in house saying they have been selected for a panels offer because of their situation - and then an offer of low install or free install - small print is a large on going higher bill and KW unit price. Disgusting.
 
FANTANA said:
Pay the deposit as late as possible and by credit card?
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There is a lot of chat on FB groups about this.
Some installers were saying the bank is charging them if the accepted card payments so in turn would have too bump the cost up even more
 
Pinoy adventure said:
There is a lot of chat on FB groups about this.
Some installers were saying the bank is charging them if the accepted card payments so in turn would have too bump the cost up even more
Click to expand...
To be fair, yes, there is a charge for processing card payments.

However, the actual charge can be negotiated between Bank / Payment Processor and the Business. Fixed fees are sometimes agreed for lager transactions, or a maximum fee agreed, regardless of transaction size.

I think the general consensus is that this industry is currently very profitable, given the extremely high levels of customer demand, so I'm sure that the businesses could incur the cost of card processing, if they wanted to.

Let's not also forget that accepting card payments will likely bring additional custom for a business, while it's also a very safe method of receiving payment, with no cash handling and no need to make trips to the Bank to lodge cheques etc.
 
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Leo said:
Building standards are already regulated with enforcement channels available. No need to replicate that.
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My impression from following news and current affairs , as well as sundry AAM fora, since 1980's is the enforcement of irish building is not at all up to a standard expected by customers paying vast sums of money for modest houses. - it may be on paper , part L's etc but not in practice.
To say otherwise is a misnomer.
However, the poor standards have given rise to a vast army of trades-people employed by houseowners in retrofit work.
Thats my opinion. Over and Out.
 
clinteastwood said:
My impression from following news and current affairs , as well as sundry AAM fora, since 1980's is the enforcement of irish building is not at all up to a standard expected by customers paying vast sums of money for modest houses. - it may be on paper , part L's etc but not in practice.
To say otherwise is a misnomer.
However, the poor standards have given rise to a vast army of trades-people employed by houseowners in retrofit work.
Thats my opinion. Over and Out.
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So your solution to existing regulations not being enforced by existing authorities is to bring in yet another regulatory body who would just have authority over solar installs??

Solar installs are much simpler to inspect, spot checks of installs carried out under the SEAI scheme are weeding out some of those who fail to comply with the regs. Any installer doing shoddy work will soon be booted off the grant gravy train and any electrician signing-off on non-compliant work will soon be out of a job.
 
No I didn't say that
Leo said:
Building standards are already regulated with enforcement channels available. No need to replicate that.
Click to expand...
You mentioned Building standards are regulated and there is enforcement.
I respectfully disagree.
Happy christmas
 
clinteastwood said:
You mentioned Building standards are regulated and there is enforcement.
Click to expand...
There isn't 100% enforcement of course, but that doesn't mean there is no enforcement. The majority of people speed on our roads, but that doesn't mean there is no speed enforcement.

It is a client's responsibility to ensure their works are completed to the required standard, most people aren't sufficiently knowledgeable or qualified to make that assessment but still don't want to pay a professional to do it on their behalf.
 
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