Social Protection Minister Heather Humphreys insists that auto-enrolment will come in this year

T

Towger

Registered User
Messages
2,614
You could not make this stuff up.

Ms Humphreys insisted that “2024 is going to be the year auto-enrolment is delivered”

As recently as December concerns were expressed over the Government’s ability to have a landmark auto-enrolment (AE) scheme in place in the second half of this year due Ms Humphreys’ department missing two of its most recent self-imposed deadlines.

The Department of Social Protection had said in mid-November that it planned to launch by the end of that month an official search for a company to build and run the crucial system for the plan.

And officials also said that draft enabling legislation, originally scheduled to be published before the Dáil’s summer recess, was expected to be published by the end of 2023.

And the fact that no State contributions had been budgeted for it in last October’s Budget had created fresh doubts about the latest deadline being met.
Click to expand...

www.independent.ie

Social Protection Minister Heather Humphreys insists new pension system for 750,000 staff will come in this year

Social Protection Minister Heather Humphreys has insisted the new auto-enrolment pension system will be introduced this year.
www.independent.ie www.independent.ie
 
Thanks for posting that article, I hadn't seen it in the news.

What do you mean when you say you couldn't make this up? Do you think they haven't a hope of having it up and running in 2024 or something else? Do you think it will happen in early 2025 then istead or do you think it will turn into another never ending delay upon delay and we'll still be waiting for it when we're in 2027.

Here's the RTE version of the article too if anyone wants to read:
rte.ie/news/business/2024/0201/1429870-putting-off-auto-enrolment-pension-scheme-not-an-option/
 
Has the legislation even been published?

Edit: it seems Heads of Bill were published in late 2022 but actual Bill has not been published by government yet.

Allowing for legislative scrutiny, procurement, IT upgrades, miscellaneous implementation, etc, I can’t see mandatory contributions kicking in until calendar year 2027.
 
Last edited:
Racrus said:
Thanks for posting that article, I hadn't seen it in the news.

What do you mean when you say you couldn't make this up? Do you think they haven't a hope of having it up and running in 2024 or something else? Do you think it will happen in early 2025 then istead or do you think it will turn into another never ending delay upon delay and we'll still be waiting for it when we're in 2027.

Here's the RTE version of the article too if anyone wants to read:
rte.ie/news/business/2024/0201/1429870-putting-off-auto-enrolment-pension-scheme-not-an-option/
Click to expand...
There's no hope of it being up and running this year. Looking back at the announcement 8 years ago of paternity pay, it took something like 9 months to get that in place, and all they had to do was update the systems they already had in place to make payments to mothers to now include fathers. I remember it was because my wife was a couple of months pregnant when the budget announcement was made, but I still didn't get paternity leave because Joan Burton's department couldn't implement it in time.

For auto enrollment, they need to collect contributions from employers and employees, to those up with government contributions, allocate these funds to an investment fund (do they have any funds managers in place?), maintain records of all this be able to pay out the correct amount on death or retirement, and this all needs to be in place at some point in 2024. There's not a hope, even if the government had budgeted for it.
 
The government are a disgrace, they don't seem capable of delivering anything with any degree of efficiency whatsoever. All these delays and uncertainty are very stressful and costly to the likes of middle aged and older people in particular that currently don't have a pension.

I'm early 40's, no pension, but have been looking into starting my own personal one the last while but for the sake of a year my plan was to wait and join the AE to get the employer contributions and state contributions and then if allowed open my own separate PRSA/RAC and pay the max allowable for income relief into that for the tax. to make up for lost years and late starting. (Will this be allowed can anyone confirm?)

I won't currently get employer contributions from my employer, but plan to try and negotiate them into my salary deal in the future.

So what do folk that aren't old but not young do, risk losing another 1/2/3/4/5+ of years of a personal pension whilst living in hope that the AE comes into act in 2025 at the latest, or bite the bullet and start a personal pension and risk missing out on employer + state contributions.
 
Racrus said:
So what do folk that aren't old but not young do, risk losing another 1/2/3/4/5+ of years of a personal pension whilst living in hope that the AE comes into act in 2025 at the latest, or bite the bullet and start a personal pension and risk missing out on employer + state contributions.
Click to expand...
Even if introduced this year it is only at 3.5% all in and steadily builds up to 14% over 4 years, I think. So looks like people in the age group you refer to would be advised not to wait that long before providing for retirement.
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
Even if introduced this year it is only at 3.5% all in and steadily builds up to 14% over 4 years, I think. So looks like people in the age group you refer to would be advised not to wait that long before providing for retirement.
Click to expand...
It would be well worth waiting for, for the sake of a year, if you could open and contribute to a separate PRSA of your own alongside the AE scheme. No one seems to be able to say if this is possible or not? Has the AE scheme mentioned this, I believe the AE doesn't allow you to pay in extra contributions but surely they can't stop you opening a PRSA after you enrol in the AE, or could they?
 
Racrus said:
It would be well worth waiting for, for the sake of a year, if you could open and contribute to a separate PRSA of your own alongside the AE scheme. No one seems to be able to say if this is possible or not? Has the AE scheme mentioned this, I believe the AE doesn't allow you to pay in extra contributions but surely they can't stop you opening a PRSA after you enrol in the AE, or could they?
Click to expand...
No problem having other arrangements as well.
 
Racrus said:
The government are a disgrace, they don't seem capable of delivering anything with any degree of efficiency whatsoever. All these delays and uncertainty are very stressful and costly to the likes of middle aged and older people in particular that currently don't have a pension.

I'm early 40's, no pension, but have been looking into starting my own personal one the last while but for the sake of a year my plan was to wait and join the AE to get the employer contributions and state contributions and then if allowed open my own separate PRSA/RAC and pay the max allowable for income relief into that for the tax. to make up for lost years and late starting. (Will this be allowed can anyone confirm?)

I won't currently get employer contributions from my employer, but plan to try and negotiate them into my salary deal in the future.

So what do folk that aren't old but not young do, risk losing another 1/2/3/4/5+ of years of a personal pension whilst living in hope that the AE comes into act in 2025 at the latest, or bite the bullet and start a personal pension and risk missing out on employer + state contributions.
Click to expand...
Why are you waiting for a government contribution that's less than the tax relief currently offered?
 
Fortune said:
Why are you waiting for a government contribution that's less than the tax relief currently offered?
Click to expand...

I don't believe I am waiting for what you suggest! Although I may be wrong with my figures.

When you combine the state contribution and the employer contribution (I don't currently have employer contributions available to me, I'll have to negotiate them into my salary deal in the future) the tax relief is greater than what's currently available to me, I think. I'm on the border of standard / higher tax rate, so 20% standard rate versus 33% I think it is with the combined state and employer contributions.

The AE would have got me employer contributions without me having to go directly to my employer to negotiate them and the state contribution would have been a nice bonus too.
 
I have a lot of regard for the Department of Social Protection (DSP). They are very good at ensuring that the poorest in society have a minimum income which means entitlement-based benefits to millions of people weekly. Their staff also routinely have to abuse and hassle that most of us wouldn't put up with.

However they just don't have much involvement with private pensions which is basically tax policy by the Department of Finance and the operational part done by Revenue. DSP does not collect PRSI (Revenue does that) and it doesn't manage state funds (the NTMA does that). Why anyone thought that DSP should set up a Central Processing Authority to collect funds and employ asset managers is beyond me. DSP simply don't have any expertise in revenue collection or asset management. There is also procurement on an absolutely massive scale with huge amounts of risk, again something that DSP has no major expertise in.


I have no inside knowledge here. But I simply think that both in terms of operational capacity and philosophy DSP is the wrong body to be tasked with setting this up, and this is probably why there has been so much delay.
 
Racrus said:
What do you mean when you say you couldn't make this up? Do you think they haven't a hope of having it up and running in 2024 or something else? Do you think it will happen in early 2025 then istead or do you think it will turn into another never ending delay upon delay and we'll still be waiting for it when we're in 2027.
Click to expand...
They don't have a hope of having it up and running by 2024. The original plan was to have Revenue collect the money. But DSP in what can only be called vanity would not allow it. They wanted to show they had the in-house expertise to develop their own systems. Now it has been 'out sourced' to a yet unknown entity. Last I heard there were 3 people assigned full time to the project in Welfare. Leaving aside the legislative requirements, set up of the CPA, public and employer information etc. They have yet to start designing let alone creating the IT infrastructure. This is a multi step process and will need to be inplace before pension and payroll providers can even start work at their end. The powers that be think the IT end is something which can be bought as a package off the shelf.
 
Story today.

The Department of Social Protection said that it is on track to publish a draft legislation before Easter on its landmark auto-enrolment (AE) pension scheme, as it works through a shortlist of parties vying for a €150 million contract to develop and run the system over 10 years.

Sources said Indian IT company Tata Consultancy Services (TCS), which set up and runs a UK auto-enrolment system established over a decade ago, and US professional services firm Accenture are among shortlisted parties vying for the key contract.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
It is like the Children's Hospital, it will come in on time and on budget but they will be to the final timetable and budget.

150m million vs have Revenue run it a fraction of the cost. Remember, 150m is only for the collection and customer front end systems. The pension providers will have their own systems and interfacing costs.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top