Social Distancing - debate on 1m v 2m

I think there has to be a certain amount of realism here. If you look at supermarkets at the moment, yes there is social distancing in the queues but I have yet to see a queue with 2 metres between people. Same when you get in store. There are less people in it but I have been less than 2 metres of people and staff on numerous occasions. And we haven't all come out of the store with the virus. All I hear at the moment is fear fear fear. Then I hear about how we can't keep borrowing. How we can't afford social welfare. Other Countries like Spain, France and Italy and now 2 weeks and more into their opening up and none of the Countries has seen a spike in infections. We are going to be living with this for a long time but we need to start living.

They have completely lost the balance between public health and the economy which I can understand. Nobody wants to be accused of putting lives in danger but at this stage, they seem to be afraid to do anything unless the Chief Medical Officer says it is ok.
 
Was it Simon Harris who said that you have a 99% safety margin at two metres and 70+% at one metre.
 
Listen - they know that if they say 2m, people will keep 1.5m apart. If they say travel 5 km, people will probably go 10km. If they move to 1m it will effectively mean 0.5m.

I'm sure they are letting the general activity push at those boundaries knowing it's a soft relaxation which will then be officially changed to 1m shortly. There is already a natural easing as mentioned - shops, beaches, parks are all slowly easing naturally
 
Leo said:
I know high blood pressure is a significant risk factor, but I assume there is a scale to that I risk. Marginally above the threshold is low risk, very high pressure and COVID-19 contagion will be terminal?

It's estimated that over 50% of the Irish population over 45 suffer from high blood pressure, but the vast majority are undiagnosed / untreated. So a challenge we'll have is how many should be considered in the at-risk group, and how do people who don't go to a GP know they are high risk?
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I bought one of the blood pressure testing kits. Tested myself over a few weeks at different times during the day. Also four or five times at the one sitting. Lots of different readings but overall I had mild to moderate hypertension.

Having your blood pressure tested by your doctor can cause "white coat" results so having your own machine might eliminate this false reading.

I haven't used the machine in a while but I must dig it out and do another test.
 
EmmDee said:
Listen - they know that if they say 2m, people will keep 1.5m apart. If they say travel 5 km, people will probably go 10km. If they move to 1m it will effectively mean 0.5m.

I'm sure they are letting the general activity push at those boundaries knowing it's a soft relaxation which will then be officially changed to 1m shortly. There is already a natural easing as mentioned - shops, beaches, parks are all slowly easing naturally
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I agree but the problem is that they are forcing the 2m restrictions on businesses like restaurants and bars as they plan to open up. They have already said the difference between opening and staying closed could be that 1m. The HSE itself has admitted that a 1m restriction would allow to carry out more day to day activities than they are currently restricted to with 2m social distance. There is no point carrying on with this 2m distance and making businesses plan around that only to announce in a couple of weeks, hey guys we have good news. It is only 1m. Make the decision now and save struggling businesses from wasting time and money
 
Sunny said:
I agree but the problem is that they are forcing the 2m restrictions on businesses like restaurants and bars as they plan to open up. They have already said the difference between opening and staying closed could be that 1m. The HSE itself has admitted that a 1m restriction would allow to carry out more day to day activities than they are currently restricted to with 2m social distance. There is no point carrying on with this 2m distance and making businesses plan around that only to announce in a couple of weeks, hey guys we have good news. It is only 1m. Make the decision now and save struggling businesses from wasting time and money
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I hope the HSE aren't trying to get rid of it for all activities though, 1m \ 70% effective might be ok for non patient facing activities.
 
IsleOfMan said:
Having your blood pressure tested by your doctor can cause "white coat" results so having your own machine might eliminate this false reading.
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It's not a false reading unless the machine is defective. But it may not be an indicator of hypertension but rather of a pathological fear of men and women in white coats. In which case a psychiatrist may be the required medical attention.
 
The Chief Medical Officer has come out and said the 2 metre rules stays in place.

Meanwhile in the real world..

Kids are all playing with each other in the street but can’t go to school or play with their sports clubs.
Adult teams are training on open green areas as they can’t train on their own pitches.
Walking in my local greenway council workers with hi-viz jackets are employed to keep people apart although they are too embarrassed to approach anyone except teens who laugh at them, gardai are still stopping me driving to the shop asking me the purpose of my journey although they do look embarrassed to be asking.
meanwhile if I wanted to have a picnic and swill beer in a park with 3 of my bestest friends that’s ok.. but Easons cant open for me to buy a book.

if I own a cafe or pub I can spend a fortune to ensure customers stay 2 metres apart and then the CMO May announce it is to change to 1 metre..

as usual this country can never seen to get anything right but at least Boris is making us look half competent but to be honest it’s a low bar.
 
I think the CMO is starting to forget that his job is to advise. His press briefings are beginning to sound like he is the one who will decide what happens. Also not sure about his attempts to rewrite history on nursing homes. He has been impressive during this but needs to be careful.
 
10m is safer than 5m, is safer than 2m, is safer than 1m.
But you have to be realistic.And if the WHO recommends an SD of 1m, then that would be the case. And I think we’ll set it to 1m by the time Phase 5 comes in.
You can fit up to four times as many people is a given space where the SD is 1m rather than 2m. This will have an enormous difference on pubs, restaurants, etc.

I was in a supermarket recently and they had the usual C19 posters up, SD 2m, cough etiquette, etc.
But one of their aisles was particularly narrow and the posters had SD of 1m.
I applaud their common sense approach.
 
As a matter of interest, if you were to be technical about it, from where is the SD measurement taken?
Is it from a vertices line going up through a persons body, a few cm in front of the spine?
Or is it taken from a persons own circumference?
With the former a beanpole teenager and a super-size linebacker would have the same SD personal space.
But with the latter the SD personal spaces could differ radically from one person to the next.
 
Thousands of people marched through Dublin yesterday in solidarity with those protesting the killing of George Floyd in the US. This has predictably avoided what should have been universal condemnation by the Irish media. An Taoiseach even seems to have tweeted his support. There was very little social distancing possible given the size of the crowd. Why was this allowed to happen? The authority of the Government to keep businesses closed while the economy sails towards a cliff edge is totally undermined. Contact tracing is rendered impossible in Dublin should there be a spike in infections arising from this march. It's barely even being mentioned on the news this morning.

Gemma O'Doherty and John Waters had about 20 people breaking the rules outside the Supreme Court and people were (rightfully) annoyed at the lack of enforcement by An Gardaí. Why do these people get a free pass? Why do they get to decide to put public health at risk in this country to march in solidarity with grievances experienced in another country? Who decides what is a good enough reason to completely disregard the law? Am I allowed organise a march in protest of the Yemeni Civil War or the dilution of democracy in Hungary?

It's a total slap in the face for all of us who have been obediently following the rules at great personal sacrifice.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1267460515225272322
 
24601 said:
Why was this allowed to happen?
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There were about 100 at the protest on Saturday, and they were SD’ed.

The crowd yesterday was much bigger than expected, in the thousands. The organisers weren’t prepared for, or expecting, such an increase in numbers. By the time the organisers realised, it was too late and SD was not possible.

That’s why!
 
Anyway, I’ve noticed that if it’s “cool”, or for charity, or “click-bait worthy”, violation the rules is acceptable.

Back in April, ever before Phase 0 and the easing of lockdown, a bunch of residents of a flat complex had a “socially distanced dance party” outside on the paths/routes/car parks.

RTÉ broadcast footage of it as their “feel good” story. What happened to #StayAtHome there?
Same with some ban Garda in Kerry, singing and dancing down a boreen with locals, sing Armadillo.
 
Drakon said:
Anyway, I’ve noticed that if it’s “cool”, or for charity, or “click-bait worthy”, violation the rules is acceptable.

Back in April, ever before Phase 0 and the easing of lockdown, a bunch of residents of a flat complex had a “socially distanced dance party” outside on the paths/routes/car parks.

RTÉ broadcast footage of it as their “feel good” story. What happened to #StayAtHome there?
Same with some ban Garda in Kerry, singing and dancing down a boreen with locals, sing Armadillo.
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Agreed, I've posted before about the almost daily feel good stories on RTE News since the start of the restrictions which celebrate people breaking the restrictions. From what I saw locally over the past weekend, anybody who is currently obeying the restrictions is in a minority.
 
llgon said:
Agreed, I've posted before about the almost daily feel good stories on RTE News since the start of the restrictions which celebrate people breaking the restrictions. From what I saw locally over the past weekend, anybody who is currently obeying the restrictions is in a minority.
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Well I would like to consider myself an average person who has adhered to the restrictions to as much as possible but I have to admit that even now, I am not observing 2m social distance. And neither is anyone else it seems. There is a distance and physical contact is still not happening but it is not 2 metres. I think the majority of people are now moving at a different speed to the Government. I think the vast majority are still being sensible and using their heads but I think people are also realistic as well.

That march in Dublin will be a good test case. It was pretty crazy but the thing that really annoyed me was the lack of political comment on it. If those crowds had gathered on a beach, you would have had every minister coming out but not here. Was it because it was a different social class gathering? The Guards hassled Debenham workers from protesting outside the shop on an empty street and yet there is nothing here. I think we are fast approaching the point where the Government will lose the majority of the population. And either we will escape with what they are warning us about or we won't and will have to live with the consequences.
 
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