Social Distancing - debate on 1m v 2m

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odyssey06

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Interesting article on the RTE site on whether 2 metres is needed for social distancing, and whether 1 metre would suffice.
This has implications for capacity in the health service and return to work for businesses.

The World Health Organization's Special Envoy on Covid-19, Dr David Nabarro, has said two-metre distance guidance "keeps you safe 99% of the time", but you can "greatly reduce your risk by maintaining a one-metre distance". Speaking on RTÉ's Today with Sarah McInerney, Dr Nabarro said that 70% of droplets from a person's cough will travel within one metre, and that "very few of them travel further than two metres". "The WHO and others have said the best distance to keep away from people if you want to avoid inhaling a droplet is two metres. That's because that will keep you safe 99% of the time but you can greatly reduce risk even at one metre because 70% of the droplets will stick within one metre."

www.rte.ie

2m space 'keeps you safe 99% of the time' - WHO expert

The World Health Organization's Special Envoy on Covid-19, Dr David Nabarro, has said two-metre distance guidance "keeps you safe 99% of the time", but you can "greatly reduce your risk by maintaining a one-metre distance".
www.rte.ie www.rte.ie
 
Given that no one is actually social distancing (one or two metres) outside of monitored environments, the Government may as well reduce it to one and increase capacity where its needed.
 
Will the concept of a household or family unit be developed? I would say that the majority of diners sharing tables in restaurants are part of the same unit. Will we see people issued with Unit Cards whereby people from the same unit don't have to socially distance at all.
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
Will the concept of a household or family unit be developed? I would say that the majority of diners sharing tables in restaurants are part of the same unit. Will we see people issued with Unit Cards whereby people from the same unit don't have to socially distance at all.
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I really don't see that happening. And I'm not going anywhere where I have to sit two meters away from my friends/wife/mistress.
 
Mouldy said:
I really don't see that happening. And I'm not going anywhere where I have to sit two meters away from my friends/wife/mistress.
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If that is a regular night out, it is probably a different type of virus you should be worried about!
 
An effective level of social distancing can only be maintained by lockdown - forcing whole family units to stay at home. Since an eternal lockdown is not likely to happen, certain realities need to be faced from a socio-economic perspective.

Human beings do not social distance. The SD zealots who walk on the road to maintain two meters where the footpaths are narrow aren't really making any difference other that exponentially increasing their risk of death by car or bike.

The new data coming from European countries showing increased in cases is reflective of the realities of ending a lockdown and keeping families apart from other families. Given the low death rate and the staggering cost, both economically and socially, I don't think that the lockdowns will ever be reintroduced in the form that we have seen. A new data set will emerge showing the deathrate as it pertains to a functioning society. What that contains remains to be seen (models are not good predictors, despite that narratives floating around about Armageddon style death numbers if ABC isn't done.)

It is entirely likely that social distancing as a requirement for education centers, workplaces and retail will be eventually abandoned due to massive non compliance outside of enforced settings.

Children cannot and will not (ever) social distance. Nor should we make them; the idea that we should raise our families to eschew closeness to or physical contact with their friends because of a virus that cannot hurt them would result in a seriously dysfunctional generation emerging - lets just say empathy would not be their strong point. This reality needs to inform the opening of schools and put an end to any half baked plans to social distance students. These same children will be playing in the park afterwards and will be all over each other.

Similarly for adults, there is now plenty of data about this virus for adults to use to determine whether or not they are at risk and certainly for their doctor or carer to help them decide. If someone is at risk, they should be entitled to extra supports from their employer and from the state to cope with this new threat. This may also result in a grim new reality for the affected group and their families, far from the nonsensical Utopian narratives being generated on social media about "the new normal".

Where someone deems that they are not vulnerable, they should be allowed to go about their business insofar as they do not pose a threat to others. This should include going to a restaurant, going to get their haircut, having a pint at the counter of their favorite pub, flying on a plane.

In short, social distancing is not a long , or even short term measure that the state should be relying on to control the spread of the coronavirus. Targeted protection of the vulnerable is possible and would be a drop in the ocean of financial, psychological and developmental capital that we have, albeit with the best of intentions, squandered on the current crisis. The state should stop trying to protect me (I neither need nor want their protection) and work harder at protecting people like my 80 year old mother, who I may never see or hug again.

M
 
I was in Lidl this morning and very little effort was made to social distance. It looked like business as usual from a customer point of view.

I used the sanitiser but the person before and after me didn't. Aisles were clogged with goods' trolleys and people were side by side around them in sauntering mode. As I was browsing the cooked meats' area, people stopped on both sides of me to do the same as me.

The cashier had a lovely perspex screen in front of her but I paid by card at the end of the conveyor where there was no perspex screen and we communicated quite freely without it.

If the 2m rule goes down to 1m, people will end up side by side.
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
There's talk now of a 1.5 metre compromise. This is getting silly. Will a radar app be developed for measuring distance from those evil humans?
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Yeah it is just playing political games now. Make it one metre to give businesses a chance. If people don't want to risk it, they can stay away like they are now....
 
Mouldy said:
Where someone deems that they are not vulnerable...
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I know high blood pressure is a significant risk factor, but I assume there is a scale to that I risk. Marginally above the threshold is low risk, very high pressure and COVID-19 contagion will be terminal?

It's estimated that over 50% of the Irish population over 45 suffer from high blood pressure, but the vast majority are undiagnosed / untreated. So a challenge we'll have is how many should be considered in the at-risk group, and how do people who don't go to a GP know they are high risk?
 
Leo said:
I know high blood pressure is a significant risk factor, but I assume there is a scale to that I risk. Marginally above the threshold is low risk, very high pressure and COVID-19 contagion will be terminal?

It's estimated that over 50% of the Irish population over 45 suffer from high blood pressure, but the vast majority are undiagnosed / untreated. So a challenge we'll have is how many should be considered in the at-risk group, and how do people who don't go to a GP know they are high risk?
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You can get your blood pressure checked for free in most Pharmacies.
 
Purple said:
You can get your blood pressure checked for free in most Pharmacies.
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Yep, and you can buy monitors for €20, the challenge is a lot of people don't want to know they have high blood pressure.
 
Leo said:
Yep, and you can buy monitors for €20, the challenge is a lot of people don't want to know they have high blood pressure.
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That's their problem and not a reason to keep kids locked up.
 
Leo said:
I didn't suggest it was, just that mane people tend to be poor judges of their own vulnerability.
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Sure, but the lesson of this whole thing is that people need to get some exercise, not get fat and generally look after themselves. The healthcare system is a kind of moral hazard for people who choose to live unhealthy lives. This disease has shown people that there is still a risk, albeit a small one in real terms.
 
Purple said:
Sure, but the lesson of this whole thing is that people need to get some exercise, not get fat and generally look after themselves.
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Very true, unfortunately coming out of this I don't see a majority taking real ownership for their own health, too many take too little care and expect the government or health service to pay the price.
 
Purple said:
Sure, but the lesson of this whole thing is that people need to get some exercise, not get fat and generally look after themselves. The healthcare system is a kind of moral hazard for people who choose to live unhealthy lives.
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On the other hand, the fit and healthy will live long and expensive lives! Pensions, over-70s medical cards, knee and hip ops, cataracts, stents, a valve or two perhaps.:D
 
While the risk increases by reducing distance to 1m we still need to get real and reduce it, at this stage the economy is becoming the more important issue, imposing 2m means many businesses won't bother opening, many more people left on government payments and a government financial crisis a year down the road. The bond markets might punish Ireland for its overly cautious stance on opening up.
 
Baby boomer said:
On the other hand, the fit and healthy will live long and expensive lives! Pensions, over-70s medical cards, knee and hip ops, cataracts, stents, a valve or two perhaps.:D
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Yep, and fat old people are the worst. At least smokers die more quickly!
 
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