Sinn Féin Budget reducing the SFT to €1.5M

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Sunnygirl69 said:
It's nothing to do with not being paid the 'going rate'. They should be paid a capped very good salary for X amount of hours.
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I addressed this point yesterday. Do people not bother reading threads anymore before commenting?

They also have ample opportunity to live and work almost anywhere they want in the world. Rising global prosperity is likely to see an acceleration and widening of the opportunities available globally for those with the greatest talent and most prized skills. Those countries that are uncompetitive in relation to taxes and working conditions stand to be roasted on foot of that.
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Sunnygirl69 said:
This has gone serious off topic....
Yes clinicians should be paid a really good salary.
No clinician should be earning almost a million euro from public work as recently reported in IT.
There is such a split in Irish society, many workers with nothing left after all their bills are paid.
Many well educated young people desperate to get on the property ladder.
If this is reduced to €1.5 million it won't bother them!
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Sunnygirl69 said:
It's nothing to do with not being paid the 'going rate'. They should be paid a capped very good salary for X amount of hours.
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Consultant pay needs a whole separate thread but it should be noted that any doctor earning above €250k in the public system is doing a crushing number of hours, probably covering for other vacant consultant posts, and likely has taken on a senior leadership role. There is no-one getting paid €1m for a 40-hour-a-week clinical job.
 
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...bills-due-to-pension-tax-law-change-0rw9l0pw9

Behind a paywall but discusses how this ceiling is affecting promotions in the Garda at Chief Super, Assistant Commissioners and Deputy Commissioner.

I also read recently but can't recall where, that if the €2m had been indexed linked it would now be €2.5m. And that the legislation provides for index linking it but no Minister has pushed the button on it.

I can only imagine that every Sec Gen, Assistant Sec Gens etc in each Dept of the Civil Service are in Ministers ears on this weekly. It will eventually change and it'll be the politics of it that forces the change
 
arbitron said:
Consultant pay needs a whole separate thread but it should be noted that any doctor earning above €250k in the public system is doing a crushing number of hours, probably covering for other vacant consultant posts, and likely has taken on a senior leadership role. There is no-one getting paid €1m for a 40-hour-a-week clinical job.
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The only reason we started talking about Hospital Consultants and other highly paid public servants is because it was used as an example of hard working, highly talented people being effected by the SF proposal. The defenders of massive pensions, probably, find it harder to argue for the multimillionaire landlords, or property speculators, so they concentrated on the self sacrificing doctors in the HSE.
Interestingly, the same characters are, usually, fulminating about the magic money tree and the profligacy of SF policy. So, it seems strange that a proposal designed to save tax payers money and reduce the public pay bill is met with such opposition.
 
Allpartied said:
The only reason we started talking about Hospital Consultants and other highly paid public servants is because it was used as an example of hard working, highly talented people being effected by the SF proposal. The defenders of massive pensions, probably, find it harder to argue for the multimillionaire landlords, or property speculators, so they concentrated on the self sacrificing doctors in the HSE.
Interestingly, the same characters are, usually, fulminating about the magic money tree and the profligacy of SF policy. So, it seems strange that a proposal designed to save tax payers money and reduce the public pay bill is met with such opposition.
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The crusade against "multimillionaire landlords" and "property speculators" has gone well for the last decade or more.
They must be really suffering at this stage.


Oh wait.
 
Allpartied said:
The only reason we started talking about Hospital Consultants and other highly paid public servants is because it was used as an example of hard working, highly talented people being effected by the SF proposal. The defenders of massive pensions, probably, find it harder to argue for the multimillionaire landlords, or property speculators, so they concentrated on the self sacrificing doctors in the HSE.
Interestingly, the same characters are, usually, fulminating about the magic money tree and the profligacy of SF policy. So, it seems strange that a proposal designed to save tax payers money and reduce the public pay bill is met with such opposition.
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You're shock at the level of opposition is self-evident. Your analysis if first order, "reducing public pay bill = good". You've ignored the second and third order effects of the policy that will have a dramatic effect on the administration of services, specifically health services. Not only will it make filling the existing 1,000 vacancies more difficult, it will encourage existing doctors to leave the health service. If it can hit the "multimillionaire landlords and property developers", the hell with the rest of us? It offers nothing but saving a few headline euro and in fact would likely be net negative for the state, from an increased spending point of view (less private resources to fund old age/fair deal) and less income (reduced level of assets on which tax has been deferred). In addition, the other side of this policy is reduction in the income limit, increasing the populations dependence on the state. The policy is regressive, populist and prosaic.
 
Firefly said:
Shh, you can't be saying things like that. It's a lot fairer to just keep increasing the minimum wage and taxing the rich than to promote aspiration and personal responsibility.
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Sorry Itchy, I forgot to add in the sarcastic emoji. ;) Of course I agree with you (in case I wasn't clear!)

Best, Opus2018
 
Itchy said:
You're shock at the level of opposition is self-evident. Your analysis if first order, "reducing public pay bill = good". You've ignored the second and third order effects of the policy that will have a dramatic effect on the administration of services, specifically health services. Not only will it make filling the existing 1,000 vacancies more difficult, it will encourage existing doctors to leave the health service. If it can hit the "multimillionaire landlords and property developers", the hell with the rest of us? It offers nothing but saving a few headline euro and in fact would likely be net negative for the state, from an increased spending point of view (less private resources to fund old age/fair deal) and less income (reduced level of assets on which tax has been deferred). In addition, the other side of this policy is reduction in the income limit, increasing the populations dependence on the state. The policy is regressive, populist and prosaic.
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Well, as I've said previously, the Irish Hospital Consultants are the best paid medical consultants in Europe and, even better paid than many American Consultants.
So, how many incentives do they need? And when do we stop?

www.irishtimes.com

Irish hospital consultants among highest paid in the world

Ireland spends less on health than other western European countries as proportion of GDP
www.irishtimes.com www.irishtimes.com
 
Allpartied said:
Well, as I've said previously, the Irish Hospital Consultants are the best paid medical consultants in Europe and, even better paid than many American Consultants.
So, how many incentives do they need? And when do we stop?

www.irishtimes.com

Irish hospital consultants among highest paid in the world

Ireland spends less on health than other western European countries as proportion of GDP
www.irishtimes.com www.irishtimes.com
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That's what happens when they're targeted for heavy taxation.

Corporations don't pay taxes. Consumers do.
Banks don't pay bank levies. Their customers do.
Landlords don't pay taxes. Tenants do.
Pubs don't pay VAT. Drinkers do.
And doctors don't pay taxes. The State and their patients do.
 
Lot of publicity about the current €2m SFT limit in the past week or so with the Gardai promotions story making the running on it
www.independent.ie

Senior gardaí threaten to quit amid pensions timebomb stand-off

Senior gardaí are warning of a potential “clearout” of top management in the force in a standoff over the taxing of pension funds.
www.independent.ie www.independent.ie

Both Pat Kenny and Claire Byrne radio shows this week had discussions on it too.

Dept of Finance have announced a review with a report due back by next Summer. I would not be surprised to see a last minute decision made as this Govt exits possibly in Autumn 2024 to increase the limit to €2.5m or even €3m
 
Allpartied said:
Well, as I've said previously, the Irish Hospital Consultants are the best paid medical consultants in Europe and, even better paid than many American Consultants.
So, how many incentives do they need? And when do we stop?
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Ideally "we" should stop about a week before you're rushed to ICU to be greeted by one of your (and SF's) beloved yellow pack A&E Consultants!

The chances are that his (or her) English won't be too good, but at least you'll die happy in the knowledge that you didn't spend your final hours under the care of an overpaid consultant!
 
Marsupial said:
Ideally "we" should stop about a week before you're rushed to ICU to be greeted by one of your (and SF's) beloved yellow pack A&E Consultants!

The chances are that his (or her) English won't be too good, but at least you'll die happy in the knowledge that you didn't spend your final hours under the care of an overpaid consultant!
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I will ignore the little tinge of racism in your post, as there are a large number of consultants ( overseas born) working in the Irish public health service, as well as NCHD's, and nurses and other health professionals
So, when do we stop?
Will we pay them a million quid a year, or two million, or ten?
And will their pensions be 500k a year or 1 million a year?
 
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