Should cyclists have to pass a test / be insured / be licensed ?

[MrEarl]

Hello,

I was wondering what peoples opinions are, with regards to cyclists. Obviously, there are good and bad, as with any other category of people in life but thats not quite what I'm getting at....

I'm sure we've all seen regular incidents with cyclists doing things wrong, such as: cycling on footpaths, traveling the wrong direction down a one way street, breaking a red at a set of traffic lights etc. Obviously, this is not to say that all cyclists are bad ... but in order to help cut this out, save lives and accidents occuring, do you think that:

A) all cyclists should have to pass a test (theory and practical), before being permitted to cycle a bike in Ireland, or perhaps just in the cities ?

B) all cyclists should be required to have a licence, once they have passed their test, to confirm they have passsed their test, perhaps record points much the same as on a driving licence for road offenses etc ?

C) perhaps have a level of insurance, to cover accidents (to include personal injury / 3rd party) ?

... following from the above, the State could also consider introducing specific laws for cyclists to obey, with appropriate penalties for those found breaking those rules.

I must admit, as a road user who owns a petrol engine car I pay significant road tax and do feel all road users should contribute to the upkeep of the roads and related services - not to suggest my road tax be reduced radically by charging significant road tax for cyclists, but a small annual fee payable by all cyclists would be no harm and help the country in it's time of need, perhaps.

One could also consider the creation of employment, with professional cycle instructors and examiners required, to test those wishing to use bikes etc.

No doubt specific arrangements could be made for those holidaying in Ireland, renting the bicycles available in some of the cities etc - with a little sensible thinking.

I'm not looking to turn Ireland into a "police state", but I do genuinely think the above ideas would help with (i) ensuring a certain safe standard for both cyclists and others using the same roads, (ii) helping to establish firm rules to be obeyed and later enforced by the Gardai or other appropriate parties (perhaps expand the role of a yellow cap or alternative) etc.

Looking forward to reading your thoughts,

Regards

Mr. Earl.

 

[bullbars]

Should parents be subject to a test to ensure they can safely push a pram? What if I want to use a wheel barrow?
Where would unicyclists fit in with the rules? Should we force them to carry a spare wheel just in case they buckle one also?

From the ages of 3-8 I operated a peddle tractor. Would this require a bicycle license or an tractor license? I did haul away a few loads of cut grass to be dumped, would I therefore have to also tax it as a commercial vehicle?

 

[Firefly]

Should parents be subject to a test to ensure they can safely push a pram? What if I want to use a wheel barrow?
Where would unicyclists fit in with the rules? Should we force them to carry a spare wheel just in case they buckle one also?

From the ages of 3-8 I operated a peddle tractor. Would this require a bicycle license or an tractor license? I did haul away a few loads of cut grass to be dumped, would I therefore have to also tax it as a commercial vehicle?

I hope the Revenue aren't reading this

My wheelbarrow would never pass the NCT either..

 

[TarfHead]

When I drive, I think like a driver, when I cycle, I think like a cyclist.

Last year I spent some time using a bike in Dublin city centre. Sometimes my own, other times a Dublin Bike.

At junctions where the light is red, I have no issue with cyclists proceeding forward provided the junction is clear and they're not a hazard to oncoming traffic. IMHO it is equivalent to pedestrians jaywalking.

As a cyclist and as a driver, I have issue with the other type, cyclists blithely ignoring oncoming traffic and moving past red lights at speed. I experience this regularly, specifically in Booterstown where cyclists heading in to the city have to leave Blackrock park and cross over to the other side of the Rock Road.

Motorists have to pass a test, have to be insured and have to be licenced, yet bad driver behaviour is endemic. Driving to work this morning, I saw 3 cars ignore a No Right Turn sign to avoid having to queue at a traffic light. At various stages in the journey, I saw road markings being ignored, motorists in a bus lane, motorists overtaking over a solid white line.

 

[bullbars]

I hope the Revenue aren't reading this

My wheelbarrow would never pass the NCT either..

In my defence, my pocket money for hauling a few loads of cut grass is surely below the taxation threshold!

Wheel barrow could be classed as an industrial vehicle - would require an annual DOE test - should get cheaper tax though

 

[The_Banker]

My young fella is 2.5 years old and he cycles a bicycle on the road outside our house.

His pocket money wouldnt cover the payment of tax.

We should be encouraging more people to cycle. Not penalise them.

 

[Leo]

I must admit, as a road user who owns a petrol engine car I pay significant road tax and do feel all road users should contribute to the upkeep of the roads and related services

You don't, you pay motor tax. This is just another form of central government revenue, it is not a fund used to finance road maintenance. If you extend the idea that road tax is for roads, and so gives those who pay is some entitlement, then we should tax pedestrians to walk along or cross roads, use footpaths, etc.

but a small annual fee payable by all cyclists would be no harm and help the country in it's time of need, perhaps.

Awful idea, we have enough problems with obesity without putting more red tape or expense barriers in place.

I'm both a driver and a cyclist, so would like to think I have some balance on this. I drive far more than I cycle, and I prefer my cycling of the off-road variety, but my opions might be informed by how vulnerable cyclists are on the road.

There's another thread at the moment on how to overtake on a multi-lane road, and what is/isn't ok. I think it's clear from this, and other threads, that the level of abuse of all road users here is high. Red lights mean only one or two more cars can race through, no right turns only apply if there's a Garda car in sight, a significant portion of road users don't seem to know how to use roundabouts, the list just goes on and on.

I'm not looking to turn Ireland into a "police state", but I do genuinely think the above ideas would help with (i) ensuring a certain safe standard for both cyclists and others using the same roads, (ii) helping to establish firm rules to be obeyed and later enforced by the Gardai

I think this one comes down to policing, we already have all the laws/rules, just not the enforcement.

With regard to safety, cyclists are the most vulnerable road user group. Cyclists doing stupid things generally only put themselves at risk. The last Garda report shows all recorded cyclist deaths were the fault of the driver, the majority of these trucks turning left while unaware of cyclists on their inside. The biggest single cause of accident involved cars turning right driving into oncoming cyclists, closely followed by side swipes caused by overtaking too closely, and next stationary car doors opening in front of oncoming cyclists. In 7% of incidents, the cyclist was at fault, either hitting a pedestrian or cycling into oncoming traffic.

So, clearly, if safety is the concern here, it's driving standards/enforcement that needs to addressed.


I'm with TarfHead on cyclists being allowed to proceed through red lights, provided there is no other traffic approaching, including pedestrians. When a number of bikes congregate at a red light, especially at the junctions where there is the bicycle area in front of the stop line for other traffic, it can cause a hazzard as cars try to squeeze past the cyclists in the race to the next red light.

 

[BillK]

Here in England many cities and towns have cycle paths which share the pedestrian footpath. As a result of this cyclists in the main assume the right to cycle on any pedestrian footpaths. I have seen, on a fair number of occasions, cyclists riding their bikes on footpaths past police officers who just ignore the fact that these people are breaking the law.

 

[Knuttell]

At junctions where the light is red, I have no issue with cyclists proceeding forward provided the junction is clear and they're not a hazard to oncoming traffic. IMHO it is equivalent to pedestrians jaywalking.

What an idiotic thing to say.

The rules of the road are black and white,they are not open to your interpretation or whether or not you have an issue with it.

The light is red this means stop,it does not mean you mentally absolve yourself and proceed blithely though the junction.

A few weeks back I nearly ran over some halfwit of a cyclist who felt he too had "jaywalking privileges"a 30 second conversation with him post a near miss has,I am pretty certain, cured him of this illusion for life.

 

[Firefly]

should get cheaper tax though

That would depend on the emissions though (of the person pushing it)

 

[TarfHead]

What an idiotic thing to say.

That's a strong reaction. I hope you drive with a lower level of testosterone .

The rules of the road are black and white,they are not open to your interpretation or whether or not you have an issue with it.

And are regularly disregarded by all road users, motorists, cyclists and pedestrians, so that point is not a differentiating factor in this discussion

The light is red this means stop,it does not mean you mentally absolve yourself and proceed blithely though the junction.

That doesn't match what I referred to, so not relevant to the opinion I posted.

A few weeks back I nearly ran over some halfwit of a cyclist who felt he too had "jaywalking privileges"a 30 second conversation with him post a near miss has,I am pretty certain, cured him of this illusion for life.

As above, if a cyclist passed through a red light without consideration to oncoming traffic, then that person is cuplable to behaving in an irresponsible manner. So too would a pedestrian who chose to cross the road in the face of oncoming traffic.

If a cyclist rolls through a red light across a junction that is clear and there is no oncoming traffic, what's the harm ? Apart from the seething resentment of motorists who don't have the same liberty .

 

[Purple]

Excellent post Leo, I agree 100%.

 

[wavejumper]

What an idiotic thing to say.

The rules of the road are black and white,they are not open to your interpretation or whether or not you have an issue with it.

The light is red this means stop,it does not mean you mentally absolve yourself and proceed blithely though the junction.

A few weeks back I nearly ran over some halfwit of a cyclist who felt he too had "jaywalking privileges"a 30 second conversation with him post a near miss has,I am pretty certain, cured him of this illusion for life.

Cool story.

 

[michaelm]

I was wondering what peoples opinions are, with regards to cyclists.

No to A, B & C. Idiot and unlucky cyclists probably have a short half-life, let the rest of them get on with it. It would be more useful if motorists did a cycling course . . however methinks that cyclists who have never driven have little idea just how invisible they can be in the dark.

 

[Leo]

The rules of the road are black and white,they are not open to your interpretation or whether or not you have an issue with it.

I believe what TarFHead was suggesting, and certainly what I was condoning what a change in traffic law to allow this, much like how the right turn on red in the US and has a positive affect on traffic flow. Done right, cyclists and motorists benefit.

A few weeks back I nearly ran over some halfwit of a cyclist who felt he too had "jaywalking privileges"

If you had hit them, they would have been at fault, and there's plenty of case law showing cyclists being convicted in such circumstances. Remember the guy convicted last year after cycling in front of a car on Dame St.?

 

[MrEarl]

Hello,

With some regret, I must post comment on my very strong feeling, that some people here are cyclists and are voicing strong objections to my suggestions simply because they may think all cyclists are safe & reliable road users.

Simply put, you are wrong cyclists - there are significant numbers of people using bikes on the streets (and footpaths !) of Dublin, who are dangerous ... something needs to be done, if only to bring the rest of the cyclists of Ireland, up to the incredibly high standards which the AAM cyclists would like us all to believe, they maintain .....

Stupidity on a bike, can result in a death - most likely, that of the person cycling the bike but quite possibly, with another party like a car driver feeling the responsibility, right or wrong, for the rest of their lives !

Regards

Mr. Earl.

 

[gianni]

Simply put, you are wrong cyclists - there are significant numbers of people using bikes on the streets (and footpaths !) of Dublin, who are dangerous ... something needs to be done, if only to bring the rest of the cyclists of Ireland, up to the incredibly high standards which the AAM cyclists would like us all to believe, they maintain .....

What do you mean by significant ?

Are you talking about all the streets of Dublin or just the city centre ?

Are you talking about all times of day ?

Or is your statement of fact above just your opinion based on your personal experiences in Dublin city centre ?

 

[Knuttell]

What do you mean by significant ?

Are you talking about all the streets of Dublin or just the city centre ?

Are you talking about all times of day ?

Or is your statement of fact above just your opinion based on your personal experiences in Dublin city centre ?

I am unaware of any quango charged with capturing and measuring this metric,though its likely there are several.

I would guess the OP is speaking from personal experience because I have observed similar and would agree with him.

 

[Leo]

Stupidity on a bike, can result in a death - most likely, that of the person cycling the bike but quite possibly, with another party like a car driver feeling the responsibility, right or wrong, for the rest of their lives !

You seem to be missing the point above that 100% of the recorded cyclist deaths were found to be the fault of the motorist. Your suggestions to address this are completely ignoring the cause.


I really don't think people are missing the point, multiple people have said cyclists do stupid things putting themselves, and at times others in danger. I'm voicing strong objections to your ideas because they don't target the core issue. Your failure to address this means your arguments/ideas come across like you just have an issue with cyclists.

 

[Complainer]

Given that the requirement for drivers to be tested, licensed and insured doesn't stop drivers speeding, phoning, texting, drifting without indicating, zooming past cyclists leaving nanometres of passing space, I'd suggest that it would foolish to expect that a system for testing, licensing and insuring would do much for cycling behaviour.

How about we start enforcing existing laws, which apply to cyclists, drivers and pedestrians before we go making bad new laws?