Setting up a bed and breakfast

Mamamia22 said:
This thread has been completely derailed. Is there anyone who would like to comment on a small bed only set up of 3-4 rooms for short term tenants in crisis situations ? Versus long term letting. I have it on good authority that 90 + euro per night is possible in the former set up without breakfast, dinner, access to dining facilities etc. I can’t see any disadvantage other than uncertain duration and possible social problems.
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As mentioned by OP above can we get back to subject matter, keep this thread on track and refrain from derailing it please.
 
Mamamia22 said:
This thread has been completely derailed. Is there anyone who would like to comment on a small bed only set up of 3-4 rooms for short term tenants in crisis situations ? Versus long term letting. I have it on good authority that 90 + euro per night is possible in the former set up without breakfast, dinner, access to dining facilities etc. I can’t see any disadvantage other than uncertain duration and possible social problems.
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What else is there to say?

All we have is hearsay which has been countered with sound advice which has been ignored.
 
Back to the original poster. Setting up a BnB is relatively straightforward. You don't have to be registered with Failte ireland (and its not worth the hassle going down that road).
Its perfectly fine not to offer breakfast. Increasingly room only accommodations are popping up, particularly with the advent of Airbnb and with many providers cancelling breakfast over covid and choosing not to reintroduce it. As regards health and safety you dont necessarily need Haccp, fire alarm systems etc etc. There are bnbs throughout the country that have been going for generations that never had an inspection from anyone. However you do open yourself up to liability issues if there is a problem down the road. All that is really needed to open a b and b is to stick a sign on your door and thats you up and running. There's no one really regulating anything. You can't call it a guesthouse without registering with failte ireland but "xxx accommodation" or i think "xxx b and b" is fine.

Forget about the €100 rate. Ukrainians are being housed for a variety of different rates depending on how they're placed (community groups / council etc) but I'm aware of hotels getting less than that. Many hotels will be withdrawing their rooms for the summer so the rate may have to rise but that isn't the going rate at the minute. And without proper facilities you aren't going to be getting the top rate. Councils rates are different throughout the country but they'll depend on the going rate in the area.
Insurance may be affected - typically you'd pay about 2k for a small bnb. Tax will depend how you decide to set it up.

Hassle: mountains more than he envisages. If he's thinking of just leaving everyone at it he still needs to meet people to give keys. If he's living on site this Will mean people arriving after check in closes, bringing people back for a party, damaging property, noise complaints. For a bottom of the market type property therell be regular visits from the gardai for various reasons. Cleaning, maintenance, responding to guest requests, dealing with overbooking, dealing with troublesome guests. If he's not going to be hands on or have someone in who can run it for him it will be a dump in no time and that brings its own problems (the only people who'llstay once the review score drops will have various issues. The council won't place anyone in properties that cant maintain a basic standard). If he's going to do it, he would be making a rod for his own back to do it any way other than somewhat well.
It is however fairly profitable at the moment. And would almost certainly generate a better return than renting.
As regards the male / female debate, I have 4 full time employees - breakfast reviews are better generally when the 2 male ams are on but overall there has been little notable difference. And I've always found it easier to find males for this kind of role (for the size id expect he'd want any hire to be able to do a lot of different tasks, not just cook for 2 hours). Thats an opinion based on many thousands of reviews and direct feedback which I'm reluctant to give because the whole "debate" is so laughably ridiculous in the first place.
 
On some of the other points raised
Council - a bnb isn't strictly commercial (it's commercial residential) so you may not need to do anything. There are plenty around the place that operate happily as residential properties although I don't know if that is them getting around the regs or the regs allowing that.

Ukrainians - originally they wanted properties to provide 2 meals per day and laundry facilities but I'm sure that's relaxed since.

You're talking about a situation that puts you between 2 stools - both short and long term accommodation. Bnbs don't take deposits or references like landlords do but they can kick anyone out very easily. Once you go over 30 days you must register the guest with the tenancy board and give rent book. You also need to go through full eviction proceedings to get rid of them regardless of their behaviour or their breaking rules. In this case you would need to be more careful who you accept in the first place.

Also just to be aware, for tax purposes revenue made it clear that short term let's are not acceptable for the rent a room scheme (so full tax due).
 
Hi there wudyquit. You seem to know first hand the pros and cons. The rate on offer is c. 70 a night to include continental breakfast. He is considering a 4 bed B and B. Council would sign a contract. Insurance is only 600 a year so not much different to usual. Don’t think any kitchen health and safety regs have been raised by the council yet. Are there any inspections that the council would carry out ?
 
Mamamia22 said:
Hi there wudyquit. You seem to know first hand the pros and cons. The rate on offer is c. 70 a night to include continental breakfast. He is considering a 4 bed B and B. Council would sign a contract. Insurance is only 600 a year so not much different to usual. Don’t think any kitchen health and safety regs have been raised by the council yet. Are there any inspections that the council would carry out ?
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If the Dept of health got a complaint they might come to check it out. Then again someone might think it's a fire hazard and another head of some Dept could come a calling. Fire, health and safety plus any food regs might need to get checked out, not too sure about smoking and stuff. Car parking if required and sure maybe they'll want a friend or two over for a few cans. Get everything in writing and then you'll be sound, otherwise?
 
Just to go back to the PRTB. My understanding is that registration of a tenancy and a rent book are not applicable ? If there is a problem tenant/guest they can be ejected …is that correct ?
 
Mamamia22 said:
Just to go back to the PRTB. My understanding is that registration of a tenancy and a rent book are not applicable ? If there is a problem tenant/guest they can be ejected …is that correct ?
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So, how is he going to do that?
 
Tell them to leave and change a door lock. Not a big problem. I have read the prtb website it says registration not necessary for a B and B unless there is a caveat for longer term B and B occupancy?
 
Mamamia22 said:
Tell them to leave and change a door lock. Not a big problem. I have read the prtb website it says registration not necessary for a B and B unless there is a caveat for longer term B and B occupancy?
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B&Bs by the standard definition are short term. If they're there more than 6 months, they get full Part 4 rights.
 
Spoke to the PRTB. They had no interest in a B and B. Said it’s up to the landlord to decide if a tenancy exists. Couldn’t have been more vague about it.
 
Mamamia22 said:
Spoke to the PRTB. They had no interest in a B and B. Said it’s up to the landlord to decide if a tenancy exists. Couldn’t have been more vague about it.
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They aren't in the business of giving taxation or legal advice outside of their remit.
 
Im assisting a friend. Is that permitted ? An earlier poster suggested that a tenancy would have to be created with a rent book issue after 30 days. I think I have established that was incorrect. Open to correction.
 
Mamamia22 said:
Im assisting a friend. Is that permitted ? An earlier poster suggested that a tenancy would have to be created with a rent book issue after 30 days. I think I have established that was incorrect. Open to correction.
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Tell us what your wonderful amigo decides eventually, there's enough advice given at this stage to satisfy an Oireachtas tribunal.
 
Do you enjoy being unpleasant or perhaps you are in charge of shutting down discussions here ?My friend is trying to set up what will hopefully be a profitable business after years of difficulty. I’m trying to establish the ground rules in relation to possible tenancies. I have had differing advice from prtb and on here. If others have opinions I’m open to them.
 
Mamamia22 said:
Hi there wudyquit. You seem to know first hand the pros and cons. The rate on offer is c. 70 a night to include continental breakfast. He is considering a 4 bed B and B. Council would sign a contract. Insurance is only 600 a year so not much different to usual. Don’t think any kitchen health and safety regs have been raised by the council yet. Are there any inspections that the council would carry out ?
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You're unlikely to have any inspections really. We've never had an inspection other than annual failte ireland inspection(which wouldn't apply). Although the previous owner had health and safety officer a couple of times. For a small bmb that wouldn't be a concern for me.
It's interesting that someone in the tenancy board is telling you their rules don't apply. Its no longer holiday accommodation after 30 days and most hotels will force guests to check out for a night after 30 days to avoid giving residency. If that were the case every landlord could just say their tenants are on holidays. Wouldnt be a risk id be taking based on the vague information from someone on the end of the phone. Not sure how you'd get clarity on that but once someone has residency, changing locks without proper eviction proceedings opens you up to litigation
 
Yes I would have thought the same. However Id imagine most problems of a social nature might arise before 30 days elapses.
 
@Mamamia22
It seems that you are talking about a particular type of short term letting called 'Homesharing'.
- Up to 4 rooms with no more than 4 people per room.
- Must be in a RPZ.
- It does not breach any existing permission
- Must fill in & return statutory notification.
- Owner or licensor must reside there full time.
I can't see any more limitation.
You should check for up to date regulations at source though as local council regulations may differ and legislation can be updated.

Citizens Information website- [I think this is incorrect, I think the 14 day rule does not apply]
You are ‘home-sharing’. Home-sharing is where a homeowner rents a room or rooms in their principal private residence for short-term lets while they are also occupying it. (In this situation you can offer unlimited short-term lettings for less than 14 days at a time.)

Revenue Regulations
You will be liable for income tax and you may have a liability under CGT, even though it is your PPR. You will probably be under the limit for VAT. Good luck figuring out from this document what part applies to you!

Dublin City Short Term Letting
This is the most recent publication that I can find.
Refer to PPR- Option A.

Regards etc
 
Leo said:
B&Bs by the standard definition are short term. If they're there more than 6 months, they get full Part 4 rights.
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OP said their relative has a large house with unused bedrooms. If a person is living in the same house as the owner they are licensees or lodgers and tenancy regulations do not apply.

The OP's relative can change up to 4 bedrooms in their PPR for a b&b without planning permission. If they are doing short term letting they may need to notify the local council in advance using the forms on council websites.
 
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