Saigon All Over Again

Duke of Marmalade

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I see the pope has criticised attempts by the West to impose its culture on others. He quotes Putin verbatim (at least translated from Russian to Spanish). And his boy in the White House agrees.
A strange mixture of contradiction and self interest. Contradiction as it itself has majored on attempting to convert foreign cultures to the one true faith, often with ruthless physical enforcement. Self interest in that if we can welcome Taliban "culture" in the brave new world, it takes the heat of Rome's milder forms of misogyny and other intolerances.
Interesting that he singled out attempts to impose democracy. Like Putin, Rome has historically had a fairly ambivalent view on democracy from Mussolini and Hitler (apologies Godwin's Law) through the basket case Latin American regimes.
 
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joe sod

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I see the US army destroyed or incapacitated military equipment like helicopters in Kabul before they left. But what does all this waste mean ?, the fact that so much money and energy went into developing these weapons and now its destroyed or left behind. Does the US or the west still have the capacity to produce these high end weapons that require so much resources and manpower especially as so much of the industrial base has moved to Asia.
Can it really afford to lose all this merchandise, what if the Taliban unable to make use of it themselves because they are too high tech sell them on for money
 

odyssey06

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I see the US army destroyed or incapacitated military equipment like helicopters in Kabul before they left. But what does all this waste mean ?, the fact that so much money and energy went into developing these weapons and now its destroyed or left behind. Does the US or the west still have the capacity to produce these high end weapons that require so much resources and manpower especially as so much of the industrial base has moved to Asia.
Can it really afford to lose all this merchandise, what if the Taliban unable to make use of it themselves because they are too high tech sell them on for money
I don't think they were high tech, both because of the level of training that would have required for the Afghan army and to concerns re: tech getting into the wrong hands.
There is a lot of hardware.

But I read an article that turboprop planes were purchased from Italy, for use like helicopters as can take more punishment in ground attacks and pilots don't need as much training. But the planes were never properly maintained \ spare parts purchased so they were cannibalising parts from planes until none were airworthy.

A lot of the leftover hardware will suffer a similar fate.
 

joe sod

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@odyssey06 that's all very true but still shocking waste, the biden people are obviously going to play down the significance of the weapons haul obtained by the Taliban, I read they got 20000 Humvees, and mine protection vehicles. That simply incredible, the Irish army doesn't even have 1 humvee .
It means that the Taliban are now there to stay, I bet they gift or sell much of it to the Pakistani military. I think this raises alot of problems between India and Pakistan as it puts
Pakistan in a very strong position
 

odyssey06

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@odyssey06 that's all very true but still shocking waste, the biden people are obviously going to play down the significance of the weapons haul obtained by the Taliban, I read they got 20000 Humvees, and mine protection vehicles. That simply incredible, the Irish army doesn't even have 1 humvee .
It means that the Taliban are now there to stay, I bet they gift or sell much of it to the Pakistani military. I think this raises alot of problems between India and Pakistan as it puts
Pakistan in a very strong position
Well, they didn't help the Afghan army in the end... if you haven't got fuel, ammo, rations the hardware is useless and I would doubt the Taliban's ability to keep a military machine going.

That's an interesting angle re: Pakistan though.
 

Purple

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I see the US army destroyed or incapacitated military equipment like helicopters in Kabul before they left. But what does all this waste mean ?, the fact that so much money and energy went into developing these weapons and now its destroyed or left behind. Does the US or the west still have the capacity to produce these high end weapons that require so much resources and manpower especially as so much of the industrial base has moved to Asia.
Can it really afford to lose all this merchandise, what if the Taliban unable to make use of it themselves because they are too high tech sell them on for money
US Industrial output has never been higher.
There are fewer people employed in the sector but they are still the most productive workforce in the world.
 

johnwilliams

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my understanding was most of the afgan aircraft got flown out by afghan pilots to can't remember the place now (Uzbekistan)???
they did capture some blackhawks from afghan army, maintenance could be problem there
humvees even uparmored are not that well protected against a good opponent / front line weapon. recon/ screening /hit and run ok
aircraft we should get is c-130 hercules number of countries have moved up to c-17 so quite few c-130s available price should be good plus lots of spare parts available
good short field capability ,cargo hold rear ramp (jeeps/ armored personnel carriers paradropped ), range good plus inflight refueling capability ,everything that gov jet does not have only down side compared to gov jet for ministers and gov officials
jet lux leather seats c130 basic foldup hard seats also might be a little noisier
gov fancy meals and flight attendants c130 k-rations and sandwiches
gov inflight entertainment c 130 bring/make your own
 

joe sod

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@johnwilliams I think we probably will be getting one of those heavy lift aircraft, despite what the government says I think they were embarrassed by our lack of capability.
It also fits into the European lack of capability without the U.S. expect to see a lot more spending on military and defence in the next few years. Ireland will have to be seen to be pulling its weight now.
I think the changing global dynamics means that defence and military capability has moved to the top of the agenda. It's no.longer acceptable that one of the richest trading blocks in the world is unable to defend itself without the U.S.
 

joe sod

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I see the US and EU still have sanctions against Syria, Why ? they abandoned Afghanistan left it to the Taliban and the EU said they now need to try and work with the Taliban in order to help the people there. Why the distinction about Syria though why cant they work with Assad, god knows he is at least alot more amenable than the Taliban , he didn't shield Bin Laden or Al Queda like the Taliban did. In fact it was the US invasion of Iraq that caused Isis and other terrorists to spread into syria and destabilise the country causing the collapse. Yet the Taliban are now the guys that Biden and the EU now want to try and work with, sure Biden even proclaimed that he could not break the sovereign deal that Trump did with the Taliban.
The fact is that Assad is there to stay now, Biden has said he wants to get out of the quagmire of the ME so is definitely not going to ever try and unseat him again especially as he is now backed up by Russia.
Surely it is better to recognize Syria under Assad , let the country get back to normal again,
 

Leper

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I'm following the Afghanistan news through RTE and over the past few nights I've seen women protesting in Afghanistan against the ways of the Taliban. Two nights ago I saw Afghani secondary school girls pleading to be allowed return to education on the news. I regret to say neither group appeared to be openly supported by their male equivalents. In fact, there were no males whatsoever in the clips shown.
 

Purple

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I'm following the Afghanistan news through RTE and over the past few nights I've seen women protesting in Afghanistan against the ways of the Taliban. Two nights ago I saw Afghani secondary school girls pleading to be allowed return to education on the news. I regret to say neither group appeared to be openly supported by their male equivalents. In fact, there were no males whatsoever in the clips shown.
Yes, the majority of men seem to fear educated women who want freedom and self determination. That's not unique to Afghanistan.
 
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