Ryanair Industrial Action

Discussion in 'Letting Off Steam' started by landlord, Dec 11, 2017.

  1. landlord

    landlord Frequent Poster

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    https://m.independent.ie/business/i...owing-industrial-action-ballots-36398341.html

    I see this as an unstoppable force (pilot unionization) heading towards an immovable object (Michael O’Leary)

    I see the potential for industrial action in Ryanair at a higher level than it has ever been in the history of the airline. This is the first time the pilots have got together as a group displayed unity and said enough is enough. From experience I can say that IALPA (Irish airline pilots Association) is an extremely strong body and a major fight is on the way considering Mr O’Leary steadfast objection to ever negotiating with unions.
    The Achilles heel for the pilots could be the vast number of contract pilots who may not “walk the line”....or perhaps I should say “may step over the (strike) line”.
    I would imagine the chances of Mr O’Leary ever negotiating with IALPA is around as high as Mr B Burgess ever admitting there is any value in Bitcoin. Sorry Brendan I had to get that one in.
     
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  2. TheBigShort

    TheBigShort Frequent Poster

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    Well if he is true to his word, and they go on strike, then his only option is to sack the lot of them. I mean, its not as if its a difficult job and accordingly, wasnt that what was reported as being his advice to the employer of LUAS drivers?

    http://www.thejournal.ie/oleary-luas-2803362-Jun2016/
     
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  3. MrEarl

    MrEarl Frequent Poster

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    TBF, unlike a Luas tram, I think there's more than just a lever for forward and backwards on a plane (they also have an up and down lever to the best of my knowledge, so a far more complicated job ;) :D)
     
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  4. Dan Murray

    Dan Murray Guest

    Nice one Landlord,

    Who is the Captain here (pun intended)?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvRYd8U7qGY
     
  5. Purple

    Purple Frequent Poster

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    Do you really think driving a Tram is of a similar difficulty level as flying a large passenger jet?
     
  6. TheBigShort

    TheBigShort Frequent Poster

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    Apologies, I should clarify, it was reported that O'Leary claimed that pilots have an easy job.
    Personally, I would consider flying an areoplane to require a deal more skill and knowledge than driving a tram.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business...-for-doing-a-very-easy-job-1.3229436?mode=amp
     
  7. Purple

    Purple Frequent Poster

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    Last edited: Dec 12, 2017
    I don't like companies using short term contracts to control their staff.
    I don't like the way Ryan Air treats their employees generally.
    The problem is there seems to be no middle ground; it's one extreme or the other.
    A Union dominated Ryan Air (think Aer Lingus until competition from Ryan Air forced them to change) is just as undesirable to me as what currently exists.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2017
  8. MrEarl

    MrEarl Frequent Poster

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    The growth in passenger numbers, year on year, supports the non union based business model that Ryanair employ...

    Ultimately, people may not like to admit it, but we embrace the current business model by flying Ryanair.

    Ryanair would struggle to hire or retain staff, if they didn't threat them reasonably well. Despite hearing the odd "horror story" from an ex-employee of Ryanair (much the same as you might hear from the odd employee of another company), I don't get the impression that they are terrible employers and they don't seem to have a problem recruiting or retaining staff.

    Granted, we've had recent reports of a mass exodus of pilots, but that's probably the first time in the existence of Ryanair that something like this has happened. So, subject to Ryanair amending their pay scales to reflect what the market currently pays, doesn't life just go back to normal ?
     
  9. Firefly

    Firefly Frequent Poster

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    I agree and look forward to higher prices and reduced routes.
     
  10. Purple

    Purple Frequent Poster

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    Unfortunately you are probably correct; better pay but fewer jobs. That is the function of Unions though, to protect the haves from the have-not's.
     
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  11. TheBigShort

    TheBigShort Frequent Poster

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    Last edited: Dec 12, 2017
    Doesn't the exodus of pilots indicate poor pay and conditions, relative to their counterparts in other airlines?
    Unfortunately, Ryanair have been pretty dogmatic over the years, in their refusal to engage with trade unions. Now that it appears the issue is being put up to them by their some of their employees, it would appear they are in an awkward spot - do they hold firm and try to beat the union or take a more pragmatic approach, engage, negotiate, and resolve the pertinent issue of pilot retention?
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2017
  12. MrEarl

    MrEarl Frequent Poster

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    Last edited: Dec 13, 2017
    And that's why I said "So, subject to Ryanair amending their pay scales to reflect what the market currently pays, doesn't life just go back to normal ?

    ... strangely, you actually seem to have quoted it in your post just above, but then missed it.


    As for the question about what Ryanair should do regarding the current issue and whether it should agree to negotiate with unions or not, that's a judgement call for the guys'n'gals at Ryanair. There is good and bad to dealing with trade unions, but also with difficult employers, so I'd have mixed views on the entire subject tbh and haven't settled on my opinion as to what should happen in this case. However, ultimately the way I see it is quite simple - treat your employees well and they will stay with you, work hard etc., then, everyone is happy :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2017
  13. TheBigShort

    TheBigShort Frequent Poster

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    Mr Earl, I wasnt disagreeing with you or trying to highlight any contradiction in your post. Merely developing the discussion from adjusting pay scales and life goes back to normal to factor in Ryanairs attitude to trade unions.
    Before payscales are adjusted, negotiation is required. Will Ryanair negotiate with a trade union? If yes, their policy in that regard is in tatters. If no, it looks like a strike, and if the advice offered to other employers with their striking crew is followed through this could get a lot messier before it gets better.
    If there are better offers of employment from other airlines, it would appear, at this point anyway, pilots are in a very strong position.
     
  14. Ceist Beag

    Ceist Beag Frequent Poster

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    Oh Mr O'Leary is well able to threaten his employees alright, not sure it will encourage them to stay with him though! :p
     
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  15. Firefly

    Firefly Frequent Poster

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    I believe it is the captains, who are employees at Ryanair, who are calling the strike action. Whatever happens in the coming weeks, I would expect Ryanair to start hiring more & more captains from agencies going forward. This would have the effect of diluting the power of the current captains.
     
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  16. MrEarl

    MrEarl Frequent Poster

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    OK, not how I read your post, but we are all good :)

    It seems to me that the airline industry is generally doing very well at the moment, so there are alternative jobs for many of the pilots, who might move. Is it not easier to move to a better job, on better terms or with a perceived better employer, than go through a battle you may not even win ?

    Ryanair have already made financial offers to try and resolve this, but to date I'm assuming the offers were simply not rewarding enough. Perhaps it's time that Ryanair dug a little deeper ?
     
  17. Firefly

    Firefly Frequent Poster

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    I think they will, in the short term, and then look to outsource even more. I think the pilots will win the battle but Ryanair will win the war...
     
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  18. Purple

    Purple Frequent Poster

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    The bottom line is that the demand for pilots is increasing. Boeing said that the industry needs a half a million new pilots over the next 20 years to meet forecasted demand. At the moment the pilot only fly's the plane about 10% of the time (and 90% of crashes are due to pilot error) and both takeoff and landing can be done by the autopilot but I don't see any pilotless passenger planes any time soon.
    Therefore this issue won't go away. Most of that growth will be in Asia but it is a very labour mobile industry (obviously). If Ryan Air want to keep the Unions at bay they will have to throw lots of money at their Captains.
     
  19. TheBigShort

    TheBigShort Frequent Poster

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    A moot point really isn't it? I don't think the pilots on an individual basis would ever envisage a scenario where Ryanair would be throwing lots of money at them.
    This is a collective effort. Typically in line with most trade union movements. Triggered by a self-interest to protect their own self-worth, justified by their contribution to growing productivity and wealth. James Connolly and Adam Smith would be proud.
     
  20. Leper

    Leper Frequent Poster

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    Money will resolve the situation in Ryanair. But, the history of yer man's treatment of all his staff resonates well with the pilots. They will not be walked on. If I were in O'Leary's boots I would be treading more carefully in future in dealings with his staff.

    Trade Unions are necessary. If staff were treated properly at all times there would be no need for unions. History keeps repeating itself and while I support those who do not want trade union representation, I believe any employee outside of trade union membership needs to look at himself objectively.
     
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