Russian Foreign Policy

[Purple]

I do agree that Ireland does lag way behind in its spending on Defence.
Wages at some grades were so bad that some families qualified for Family Income Supplement to help keep their heads above water.

Anyone in a low skilled job who is supporting a family will probably qualify for FIS. The argument for higher pay is that the armed forces can’t recruit and retain a sufficient number of suitably qualified people.

Modern tech is probably needing an upgrade.

Definitely. Bringing our radar capabilities up to the level Britain had 70 years ago would be a good start.

I'd be wary of all the headlines that cast Ireland as a weaklink for a Russian attack. Russia is only concerned if we are allowing US shipments of weaponery to Ukraine through Shannon - not an unreasonable concern on their part. Remove the assistance to ship weaponery and then the threat is removed. Thats far more efficient from a budgetary sense than trying to beef up our military in response to threats by Russia on other Europeans.

That’s probably the most naive thing I’ve ever read on Ask About Money.
Russia is the enemy of democracy and free speech. It is the enemy of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. It is our enemy.

 

[Sister Sara]

The argument for higher pay is that the armed forces can’t recruit and retain a sufficient number of suitably qualified people.

Indeed, a pretty critical point when wanting to double the defence bill...to actually have personnel available to defend the country.

Russia is the enemy of democracy and free speech. It is the enemy of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. It is our enemy.

Quite hyperbolic, but as most us have lived through the Islamaphobia from 9/11, WMD and illegal invasion of Iraq, the millions killed and all the hyperbolic media at the time this stuff is getting wearisome.

 

[Purple]

Quite hyperbolic, but as most us have lived through the Islamaphobia from 9/11, WMD and illegal invasion of Iraq, the millions killed and all the hyperbolic media at the time this stuff is getting wearisome.

And we've lived through lots of other very bad stuff from Western countries but far worse from Russia and China. They are the countries which imprison and oppress their own people. What is really wearisome is people who try to draw moral equivalences between police states which are overtly oppressive and democratic states.

 

[Sister Sara]

@Purple. I wasn't making moral equivalences between States, I was referring to dramatic language being used by Western media and governments to hype up its citizens into following them into a war-footing mindset.

Democracy is great for the citizenry to deal with their own internal squabbles. Democracy has no place at the table for international order. Any notions of such have been quashed with illegal invasions, and uninterrupted attempt at genocide.

I would be ok with Ireland starting to increase its defence spending but not because a Russian aircraft flew into our airspace anymore than Israeli aircraft flew into our airspace with alleged ammunition.
But if its monitoring and protecting our own airspace that we want we better ask the Brits first as they are currently in control. My guess is that they prefer having control over our airspace rather than leaving it to us. They are, after all, more likely to be subject to attack.

 

[Itchy]

we better ask the Brits first as they are currently in control.

What does this mean, specifically?

 

[Purple]

@Purple. I wasn't making moral equivalences between States, I was referring to dramatic language being used by Western media and governments to hype up its citizens into following them into a war-footing mindset.

Oh, like pointing to the "Military Action" that Russia was forced to take by those evil Ukrainians and calling it an invasion of a democracy by a police state run by a dictator? What a terrible misrepresentation of the truth! Those evil democratic governments pretending that they feel threatened by Russia just because its dictator said that he wants Catherine the Great's empire back and has already invaded more than one country which used to be part of the Soviet Empire.

Democracy is great for the citizenry to deal with their own internal squabbles. Democracy has no place at the table for international order.

Wow. I've no answer to that. I think that there is a hierarchy of governmental systems based on which one is most closely aligned to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. You seem to be aligned to Trumpian isolationism in which dictators and despots should be allowed to do what they want within their own borders.

Any notions of such have been quashed with illegal invasions, and uninterrupted attempt at genocide.

By Russia, China, UAE, Myanmar, Egypt, Turkey, Iran, Syria etc?
Why do you think that bad actions by a country whose legal and political system is based on democratic ideals undermines those ideals?

I would be ok with Ireland starting to increase its defence spending but not because a Russian aircraft flew into our airspace anymore than Israeli aircraft flew into our airspace with alleged ammunition.

Do you think that Russia poses no threat to our national security?

 

[Purple]

What does this mean, specifically?

We have no capability to monitor what it in our airspace or waters and no capability to do anything about it even if we did. Therefore our former masters have to do it for us.

I find that unsatisfactory. Others seem to be comfortable with us still hiding behind the apron strings of mother England.

 

[Sister Sara]

You seem to be aligned to Trumpian isolationism in which dictators and despots should be allowed to do what they want within their own borders.

You may have misconstrued my point, my bad. I'm all for an international based order for foreign affairs through the UN and institutions like ICC.

However, as we can see, when international affairs do not suit the agenda of national interests, national interests will often railroad through the international order. Its great to have principles of democracy, but in international affairs they are easily displaced. Take recent threats by Trump administration to arrest the democratically elected leader of Venezuela.

Any nation/empire that spends more on defence that the top 10 next powerful (maybe more?) combined is not intent on rules based democratic international order.

Do you think that Russia poses no threat to our national security?

No more than US, Israel and UK do.

The more we align to US,UK and NATO, the greater the Russian threat. If we were to align closer to Russia and China, US and UK would take more than a dim view of Dublin government.

 

[Sister Sara]

I find that unsatisfactory. Others seem to be comfortable with us still hiding behind the apron strings of mother England.

It is unsatisfactory, but to whom? London? Dublin?

I haven't heard anything to indicate that and that they continue monitor our waters and airspace without any apparent complaint, it would appear that it is in their interests (perhaps our mutual national security interests) to continue to do so?

 

[Purple]

You may have misconstrued my point, my bad. I'm all for an international based order for foreign affairs through the UN and institutions like ICC.

However, as we can see, when international affairs do not suit the agenda of national interests, national interests will often railroad through the international order. Its great to have principles of democracy, but in international affairs they are easily displaced. Take recent threats by Trump administration to arrest the democratically elected leader of Venezuela.

Fra right groups such as Human Rights Watch and The Guardian described the election as stolen and the Guardian specifically describes Maduro as a dictator... but carry on...

Any nation/empire that spends more on defence that the top 10 next powerful (maybe more?) combined is not intent on rules based democratic international order.

How come?

No more than US, Israel and UK do.

Are you serious?

The more we align to US,UK and NATO, the greater the Russian threat. If we were to align closer to Russia and China, US and UK would take more than a dim view of Dublin government.

What's "Dublin government"? Do you mean the Irish Government?
Are you aware of the massive spy hub that the Russians were building in their sprawling Embassy compound in Dublin? They would have had more staff in Dublin than in London if the Americans hadn't asked the Department of Foreign Affairs to ask the Department of the Environment to get their act together and pull the planning permission. That was years ago. If you think that Russia don't regard us as an enemy then you are delusional.

 

[Purple]

It is unsatisfactory, but to whom? London? Dublin?

Why do you keep naming cities when you are talking about countries?

I haven't heard anything to indicate that and that they continue monitor our waters and airspace without any apparent complaint, it would appear that it is in their interests (perhaps our mutual national security interests) to continue to do so?

They may feel the need to do so in order to protect their flank (and rescue our fishermen) but if we consider ourselves to be an independent country then no Irish citizen should find it satisfactory.

 

[Sister Sara]

Fra right groups such as Human Rights Watch and The Guardian described the election as stolen and the Guardian specifically describes Maduro as a dictator... but carry on...

"The Guardian"??... ...I get that his election is disputed but a democratic rules based international order should not tolerate a foreign nation unilaterally placing a bounty on another leader for their arrest. Do you think this is acceptable behaviour?

How come?

Because as mentioned international relations are fundamentally based on national interests not, regrettably, through democratic order. Diplomacy is all well and good, until it isnt, and then might is right! Or at least thats the theory.

Are you serious?

If Ireland, through its government in Dublin (hope that answers the 'city' question) were to align itself more closely to Russia, and/or China, the UK and US would pose as much a threat to Irish sovereignty, probably greater, as Russia does today. I'm not talking about invasion, but attempts to topple the Dublin (Irish) government would not be unlikely and have in place more friendly UK and US govt.

20th century Ireland is not that long ago in diplomatic terms and there continues to remain a thread of support and thinking in our democratically elected representatives that would probably, at least, begin distancing itself from US/UK alignment if it got into power one day. The Brits know this, and ergo, it remains in their interests that they have first hand intelligence on our skies and in our waters.

if we consider ourselves to be an independent country then no Irish citizen should find it satisfactory.

True. But real politik of international relations may dictate otherwise. Citizens are way down the pecking order when it comes to decision making on security and defence.

Personally, I think our spending is so low that even doubling it may not raise any eyebrows in Britain, but that would remain to be seen.

 

[Purple]

"The Guardian"??...

Not left wing enough for you?

...I get that his election is disputed

Yes, in the same way that the Russian election is disputed. Having absolutely no credibility is also a good way of saying it.

but a democratic rules based international order should not tolerate a foreign nation unilaterally placing a bounty on another leader for their arrest.

A bounty? Are you saying that if someone suspected of drug dealing in Ireland was elected President of another country we should not arrest them if they came here? Do you think that status, political or otherwise, places an individual above the law? You sound like a Trump supporter.

Do you think this is acceptable behaviour?

Yes, nobody should be above the law.

Because as mentioned international relations are fundamentally based on national interests not, regrettably, through democratic order. Diplomacy is all well and good, until it isnt, and then might is right! Or at least thats the theory.

The countries who believe in rules based international law need to have the ability to defend those beliefs. If you cannot defend your freedom then you aren't really free.

If Ireland, through its government in Dublin (hope that answers the 'city' question)

No, it is the Government of Ireland therefore you should refer to it as the Irish Government. The location of that government within the country is irrelevant.

were to align itself more closely to Russia, and/or China, the UK and US would pose as much a threat to Irish sovereignty, probably greater, as Russia does today.

If we supported police states and dictatorships which were actively attacking democracies and undermining the principles of individual rights, self determination and democracy then I would very much hope that countries which uphold the values of freedom and democracy would oppose us. I know that Catherine Connelly and Slogans before Logic and the rest of the Loony Left don't hold much store in freedom and democracy as they are Marxists and Trotskyites and that makes them fellow travellers with Putin etc but thankfully most Irish people think otherwise. I'[m also thankful that we are members of the EU, probably the greatest international peace and freedom project ever constructed.

I'm not talking about invasion, but attempts to topple the Dublin (Irish) government would not be unlikely and have in place more friendly UK and US govt.

Do you mean the government of Ireland?

20th century Ireland is not that long ago in diplomatic terms and there continues to remain a thread of support and thinking in our democratically elected representatives that would probably, at least, begin distancing itself from US/UK alignment if it got into power one day. The Brits know this, and ergo, it remains in their interests that they have first hand intelligence on our skies and in our waters.

I think that the US and UK and other democratic countries in the region know that most Irish people have grown up and that level of childish simplicity is the preserve of a small minority bombastic egotists and simpletons.

True. But real politik of international relations may dictate otherwise. Citizens are way down the pecking order when it comes to decision making on security and defence.

Citizens are front and centre in such decisions in democracies. Not so in Police States and Dictatorships.

Personally, I think our spending is so low that even doubling it may not raise any eyebrows in Britain, but that would remain to be seen.

The British would be delighted if we could defend ourselves. Then they wouldn't have to do it for us.