So I was referring to the service on the RTB. They have removed their email address for receiving NOTs from their forms and guidelines. However, if Section 6 is relevant to the service of the NOT to the RTB, is this to suggest they are obliged to accept copies of the notice of termination by email? Does it also mean they have to accept it by Fax? Only asking out of curiosity, but its an interesting question.
RTB told landlords posting date = service date. The High Court says it doesn't. Accommodation providers set up to fail?
- Thread starter stormy
- Start date
Brendan Burgess
Founder
- Messages
- 58,246
Folks
This is an interesting and important issue.
Read the thread title. Is your post about the issue of when a notice of termination is? If not, don't post.
If you post is on topic, don't post an aside which is off topic. The whole post will be deleted. We don't have time to edit specific posts.
If someone else posts off topic, ignore it or report it. Don't reply.
Brendan
This is an interesting and important issue.
Read the thread title. Is your post about the issue of when a notice of termination is? If not, don't post.
If you post is on topic, don't post an aside which is off topic. The whole post will be deleted. We don't have time to edit specific posts.
If someone else posts off topic, ignore it or report it. Don't reply.
Brendan
@Bronte - I think you can, see extract from the legislation below. I'm assuming that WhatsApp counts as an electronic contact point.
I don't think you can WhatsApp the RTB though
(ca) by sending it by electronic means to an email address, fax number or other electronic contact point used by the person for receiving emails, faxes or other electronic messages, where a record that the notice or other document has been sent is made for the sender by the email system, fax machine or other electronic system used;
I don't think you can WhatsApp the RTB though
(ca) by sending it by electronic means to an email address, fax number or other electronic contact point used by the person for receiving emails, faxes or other electronic messages, where a record that the notice or other document has been sent is made for the sender by the email system, fax machine or other electronic system used;
First thing I do with any messaging service or email app is turn off read receipts.
I hate when someone knows when I have read their message.
Im sure there are lots of people like me so your tenant could have it off too.
Thanks to you guys discussing and linking to cases I've spent some time reading the odd case or so. This one I found important:
Think you guys might like it:
Think you guys might like it:
Unfortunately, the High Court case says otherwise and the High Court is the determiner in a question of law like this.
The RTB and the Tribunal have been ruling for years that posting to the tenant is sufficient and determines the date. The recent High Court case says the exact opposite - it is receipt which is crucial. What the High Court says is what must be followed.
So jealous.. Congrats... I hope to be there about sept / oct this year, if nothing goes wrong!
The RTB appear to have now updated their guidance on serving notice. Their recommendation is that email is sent to tenants on same day it is submitted on the RTB portal.
All sounds well and good, but what if long term tenants do not agree in writing to receive email communication. Could they use such refusal in future to dispute the NoT?
The best way to ensure both notices are received on the same day is to submit your notice through the RTB Service Centre on the same day that you email it to your tenant.
Before you email, we recommend that you have a written record that the tenant has agreed to receive email communication about their tenancy at that email address. The system must keep a record of the email you send.
If you cannot email the notice to your tenant, there are other options to ensure same day service:
All sounds well and good, but what if long term tenants do not agree in writing to receive email communication. Could they use such refusal in future to dispute the NoT?
How can I ensure same day service of my notice?
Same day service means that your tenant and the RTB receive your notice on the same day.The best way to ensure both notices are received on the same day is to submit your notice through the RTB Service Centre on the same day that you email it to your tenant.
Before you email, we recommend that you have a written record that the tenant has agreed to receive email communication about their tenancy at that email address. The system must keep a record of the email you send.
If you cannot email the notice to your tenant, there are other options to ensure same day service:
- You can hand deliver the notice directly to your tenant on the same day that you submit the notice through the RTB Service Centre.
- You can leave the notice at the address where the tenant normally lives, or another address where they have agreed to receive documents. You must do this on the same day you submit the notice through the RTB Service Centre.
From when does this apply?
Up until recently the instruction from the RTB was that sending on the same day was sufficient.
Are all previous NoTs, rent increase notifications etc. invalid for that reason?
Has the RTB clarified that very important point as it seems very clear that the NoT is otherwise entirely invalid
- Be served to the RTB on the same day it is served to the tenant. Failure to do so makes the notice invalid. Learn more about how to ensure same day service.
That's what I'm wondering. This new guidance differs from what they said a month ago (see screenshot from Stormy dated 26 April).
Does that mean there are up to 7000 invalid notices of termination for the last quarter??
I think the RTB will be delighted if there are. Threshold must be throwing a party.
Any rent setting forms sent since the date of the judgement are invalid as well.
Also, how far back does this go? From memory, reading the case, it looked to me that the judge's view is that the correct legal rule was always receipt on the same day.
Yet another major out of the blue rule change for landlords!
Nothing from the RTB of course about the implications or when this applies from. Does the IPOA know anything about this?
I realise that this is as a result of the court ruling, but objectively, this is bureaucracy gone mad.
It is bureacracy gone mad.
There is no logical reason why the NoT or the rent setting form has to be received or sent on the same day. As long as the RTB gets the form within the week or the month, that's fine. Is there any other area where forms have to be served on the same day? I doubt it very much.
The same day rule is a policy deliberately and intentionally put in place solely to trap landlords and for no other reason.
Absolutely not. Can you imagine the carnage from tenants taking cases. It's up to us as landlords to keep up to date with the rules. What would be helpful is if the RTB who do not have a database of every single landlord in the country sent a letter to all of us, informing us of the importance of how NofT can be validly served. They don't have a data base of our emails either, so obviously they cannot send us an email !
No, just the ones that were posted and of those, just the ones where the tenants take a case.
They don't have lawyers, or access to lawyers to clarify the implications ! But what is clear, is that the Court Ruling is based on the law as it is in the Tenancy acts * (or up until the court case, so not the latest 'Act'. - I've no idea if the new Act changes anything about service. The court is not changing the law, it is stating what the law is, and the law is not what the RTB thought or ruled was the law in their Determination Orders/Tribunals.
* served - that's in the Tenancy acts, and the court took the meaning of served from the Interpretation Act (another piece of legislation)
Good spot, @Wavelly. Extraordinary - no notice to stakeholders that years of guidance were wrong and misleading. An abhorrent body.
I don't think the judgment date matters - the requirement for NOTs has been in place since 2020* so the NOTs sent by post have been invalid all along, not just since the ruling. Same day service for rent reviews/rent settings are required since 1 March, so many of those rents are now invalidity reviewed / set.
*Same-day service to the RTB for NOTs originated in 2020 for arrears terminations and was extended to all NOTs in 2022 - both still in question here.
They have all our contact data. It's taken at tenancy registration.
Threshold will be all over this. The RTB should be absolutely telling stakeholders years of guidance is incorrect.
The rules never changed - this is legislation going back six years. The RTB misled people for the six years, and now they're quietly trying to fix their own mistake without notifying stakeholders of the major change.
Absolutely correct. It's so complicated the RTB can't even get it right.