Dave Byrne
Frequent Poster
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Apologies if I’m in the wrong thread but has anyone posted a draft tenancy agreement that protects the landlord from all of these RTB landmines or am I fantasising?
Good luck.draft tenancy agreement
It seems there would be grounds to appeal this to the high court on a point of law. But the legal costs would easily exceed the EUR 2,040.The Act required them to vouch those expenses.
Exactly and the Tribunal knows this.It seems there would be grounds to appeal this to the high court on a point of law. But the legal costs would easily exceed the EUR 2,040.
Landlord is at fault for not having receipts. I bought drain block last month for a tenant around a tenner, I got a receipt. As a landlord our work is not allowed by revenue. We all know this. I most certainly will not be claiming for my time driving to B&Q for the drain block.TR0001641 (Douglas): EUR 100 to clear a blocked sink and EUR 60 to dump beds the tenant left behind were both refused for want of a receipt. The landlord's time removing adhesive hooks the tenant admitted leaving was refused because "no expense has been incurred".
No receipts, in 2026, seriously.Dunmore East (Bergin v Hobbs, reported in Waterford Live, September 2026): the landlord said he paid EUR 90 to fix a forced bedroom door, EUR 300 for a stained mat and EUR 200 to steam-clean beds and furnishings. With no start-of-tenancy photos and no receipts, the full EUR 1,500 deposit was ordered back
Well it’s a bit odd, I’d have to read the case.TR0001085 (Portlaoise): the damage claim failed because the remedial invoice came from a firm owned by one of the landlords and so was "not entirely objective".
That’s proper order, you have to provide the bills and apportion, which is why in one of my properties with 2 flats i left the tenants put one bill in each of their names and let them work it out, in another property as I really didn’t want to split the bills I just included it in the rent and write it off as a cost for tax.TR0001646 (Dublin 1): a EUR 400 deduction for utilities was refused because the bills hadn't been produced and the apportionment hadn't been worked out.
Wow, bank statements, thanks to my accountants advice I have a bank account dedicated to rental income and costs.TR0725-008934 (Ballyconnell): the tenants didn't attend, and the agent said the EUR 1,910 owed at the start of February 2025 had never been disputed. The Tribunal refused it anyway because there were no bank statements or rent schedule and the agent had the figure from the landlord. That one point lost the landlord the EUR 1,910, the warning notice and the notice of termination.
These are not good examples of RTB bias. You of course need to have a wear and tear list, adding as you purchase new items, you’ll have invoices, it’s advisable to take photos before letting, and also take photos of any damage.TR0001467: with no inventory, no dated photos and no verified invoices, the landlord recovered nothing for damage.
On good practice, agreed. Keep every receipt, photograph everything, put it all in the case file. That isn't the point I was making, though. The point is which side the Act actually requires to vouch.Bronte said:Landlor is at fault for not having receipts.
These are not good examples of RTB bias.
That’s the landlords fault. He’s supposed to have receipts, that’s what is reasonable. If he lost the receipt he should be able to should be able to show his bank statement showing he has paid it, in addition it woukd have been on his tax return. (Replacement cost probably)The sink in TR0001641: the landlord said he had provided a receipt; it wasn't in the file. Under s.12(4) a reasonable cost for clearing a drain shouldn't need one
Agreed it’s a tax rule, I think it’s a petty item to claim for by the landlord. Do you think I charged for cleaning manky fridges and encrusted ovens? As I’m beyond that life now I’ll pay someone to do it or just throw the destroyed hob out.The hooks: the Revenue rule that you can't deduct your own labour is a tax rule. It has nothing to do with s.12(4), which asks what the work would cost if the landlord had it done. The tenant admitted leaving the hooks, and the claim was refused because "no expense has been incurred". That's the wrong test under the Act.
That’s not careless, that’s plain stupid.Dunmore East: no receipts is careless, I agree. But under s.12(4) the landlord needn't have paid anyone yet. A quote for the door and the mat would have done.
Well I do wonder if the bill was “padded”.TR0001085: here the landlord had an invoice, and it still wasn't accepted because the firm was connected to him. A receipt isn't always enough either.
LOL. I’m learning loads from your case analysis, you hopefully realise I’m trying to be fair, also I’m playing devils advocate, you know I know the RTB is biased against us, but you also know some landlords are rogues. They do none of us any favours.TR0001646: fair point. If you deduct for utilities you need the bills and the split. That one I concede.
Agreed. I loath the RTB ! And think they are grossly incompetent and biased.None of this means landlords should be sloppy. It means the standard is being applied the wrong way round: strictly where the Act doesn't require proof, and waived where it does.
At a basic level it’s common sense we need to be professional. We need the receipts for revenue in any case, so yes I got a receipt for the drain block! It’s now in my rental file, and put on my excel. My sibling takes photo’s of everything, and loads them into the excel. All correspondance in writing.Your reply is a list of things landlords must do to win: inventory, dated photos, invoices for every purchase, receipts for a tenner's worth of drain unblocker, a course with the IPOA, Judge Judy.
Any tenant withholding rent is wrong. Why on earth was the tenant carrying out work/repairs/purchasing items?Now look at what the tenants in TR0001763 did. They withheld rent for months, claimed €2,340 for works going back to 2020, produced no invoices, had the landlord point that out to the Tribunal, and were awarded €2,040. Not one of the things on your list. The Act says their claim is for "reasonable and vouched for expenses", and it was never vouched.
That's double standard. Landlords are held to a litigation standard the Act doesn't impose on them, and a tenant was excused the one the Act does impose. "Not having receipts is the landlord's fault" is a fair comment on the landlord. It's no answer at all to why the tenant with no receipts won.
And on the standard itself: s.12(4) measures a deposit deduction by what reasonable remedial work would cost, not by money spent. A landlord with a quote has met it. A landlord who did the work himself has met it. The Tribunals keep refusing those claims for want of a receipt that the Act doesn't ask for.
Show me a case where a landlord with receipts was denied payment?
Says who? Not the Act. The standard of proof is the balance of probabilities, for both sides. The only express vouching requirement in s.12 is on the tenant, and in 1763 it was waived. The "professional standard" is something the Tribunals invented, apply to one party only, and award no costs for meeting. Most landlords are one property, no agent, no adviser, facing Threshold on the other side or a Tribunal doing Threshold's job for an absent tenant. "Be more professional" is sound advice to them. It is not an argument that the system is working.Bronte said:we have to be the professionals, we are in the landlord business. The standard we are held to is higher because of that.
This is a messy complicated case. Tenants did not submit invoices, but they did supply photos.Now look at what the tenants in TR0001763 did. T
Yes this is pure lunacy, that county councillors, Threshold, RTB are looking for crack pot errors in our notices. Meanwhile the RTB can put up incorrect advice, change their advice without stating a) they’ve changed it b ) acknowledging they were wrong , they can make errors in law, fully agree with you.TR0001393 (Carlow): the landlord's ledger was right to the cent. The letter said €913 instead of €903. Notice gone, year gone.
Actually we are more in agreement than you think. In order to win, I have to be aware of the fact that I’ve to be whiter than white. It’s not fair. The system is biased against landlords in implementation. The difference between us is that I know beating the system means learning the system and accepting I’ll have to navigate how to avoid the RTB altogether. Because the system always wins. Or you die trying to fight it.The difference between us is this. You see landlords who didn't prepare. I see a Tribunal that wrote its own rule for landlords, enforces it to the euro, and ignores the one Parliament wrote for tenants.
This is a messy complicated case. Tenants did not submit invoices, but they did supply photos.
The difference between us is that I know beating the system means learning the system and accepting I’ll have to navigate how to avoid the RTB altogether. Because the system always wins. Or you die trying to fight it.