Retail Trading - What's the catch?

Hi Guess who

I am trying to understand what you are doing.

You have a fund of €100 . No leverage of any sort.

You back €10 a time.
If you lose €3 - you are out. So you have lost €3 on that trade.
If all your open trades go against you suddenly, you lose €6 as you have never more than 2 open.
But most of your trades are profitable and run to €10.

So your account looks something like this
-3
-3
+10
-3
+10

And these are your profits after all costs including the costs for any subscriptions you have to make.

And do you have to give up your day job to do it?

I know a guy who was making money exploiting free bets on gambling websites. But he was making about €5,000 a year whereas he should have been earning €50k a year.

So do factor in the cost of your own time.

Brendan
 
I assume that Guess_Who has identified a few programmatic trading strategies that have a positive return (currently - no guarantee that will continue of course). It could be that the strategy loses most often and hits a stop loss or perhaps it trades very infrequently and mostly wins - if it both trades frequently and wins frequently then I expect guess_who does not have any need for advice from AAM :)
The overall success of the strategy can only be gauged as Brendan says by totalling the wins/losses and expenses over a period, the win/loss ratio is not really that useful as a metric.

There is a collection of interviews with successful traders in the "Market Wizards" series of books which I found interesting/entertaining (Schwager), the one common theme is how essential it is to carefully control your losses, the wins look after themselves for the most part. The books also confirmed to me that there is no way I would ever have the commitment to become an active trader, it's not for the faint-hearted.
 
@guess_who if you want to find out about mechanical trading writing code for trading forex , curve fitting, minimising drawdown , position sizing etc., research Andrea Unger or Kevin Davey or PM me.
 
A good example is betting on roulette.

If you keep doubling your bet, you will always win.

So bet €1 on black, and black comes up, you win €1.

Bet it again, and if red comes up, you lose €1.
So the next time bet €2 and if black comes up, you win €2, so your total win from this second series is €1.

Then you run into 4 reds in a row but black comes up on the 5th roll.
1) Bet €1 - lose €1
2) Bet €2 - total losses €3
3) Bet €4 - total losses €7
4) Bet €8 - total losses €15
5) Bet €16 , black comes up - cumulative win €1.

So your "system" is working.
But eventually you will hit a run where you lose everything.

Brendan
Yes, either a house limit or running out of money kill the strategy.

I remember having a similar “bright idea” in my early 20s to make €200 beer money every weekend. I’d make “educated” bets on even money sports shots and double the bet if I lost…
 
A little over three years ago, I created this thread as a software engineer who had stumbled into retail trading after coding and backtesting a Forex strategy for someone else. Just to recap, I was demo trading two strategies I had built, mostly on the S&P 500, metals, and major forex pairs. They weren’t perfect, but they were showing consistent profitability in a demo account, and I was wondering if moving to live trading would just lead me to blow up my account like so many people warned about.

Fast forward to now, and I thought it might be useful to share what’s happened since.

1. My early strategy did work, but…

I ran my initial strategies live for about 18 months and managed to average around 3% monthly. It wasn’t life-changing, but it was consistent enough to give me confidence that the whole “retail traders always lose” narrative isn’t the full story.

2. The big lesson: volatility in Forex is brutal.

The biggest challenge I found with Forex wasn’t that my strategy stopped working, but that the volatility swings made risk management much harder. The emotion of dealing with trades going from near TP to hitting my SL, in minutes, was really tough. I was never one for risking more than 2% on a single trade, so I never came close to blowing my account, but clusters of losses really made me question the validity of the strategy at times. Even when I was profitable, the ride was a lot bumpier than I wanted it to be. Forex really was a white-knuckle ride.

3. Moving into indices changed everything.

After nine months of live account trading, coupled with extensive backtesting using 20 years of market data I purchased, I realised that performance on the S&P 500 was strongest of all, so I started to evaluate and refine my strategies further on the DAX, FTSE, Dow, S&P 500, and Nasdaq, whilst continuing to trade Forex and metals. Using fundamental analysis together with Wyckoff accumulation/distribution patterns to track shifts in medium- and long-term market conditions, I found that the strategies adapted well. In fact, they performed best on the DAX, FTSE, Dow, and Nasdaq. The setups became cleaner, my hit rate improved, and profitability climbed to around 6% per month at my peak, during a period when I was pushing risk a bit harder and spending every spare minute I had trading.

4. Growing to full-time.

Over time, compounding those returns grew my account to the point where I now trade full-time and make a very good living from it. These days I risk no more than 1% per trade, and only 0.5% around news releases, which means I now follow a strategy that gives me greater stability and peace of mind.

5. Final thoughts.

For anyone starting out, my main takeaway is that it is possible to build consistent strategies, but it takes years of study, testing, and adapting to what the market gives you. It’s a gradual journey, not an overnight success, and the biggest edge comes from patience, consistency, dedication, and hard work, not chasing “holy grail” systems. What worked for me was focusing on understanding market structure (through Wyckoff) and aligning it with fundamental drivers, and coupling that with technical factors, using indicators, to craft entries, rather than relying purely on indicators, the approach that online educators promote.

If anyone is thinking of starting to trade, or is struggling with their trading, feel free to drop my a line and I'd be happy to give you my thoughts based on my experience to date.
 
I can't quote posts ClubMan. That’s a fair question. I’m not going to disclose exact figures, but I can say that my strategies have performed well, considerably better, compared to simply holding the indices. More importantly, they provide predictable risk management and consistency, which has allowed me to trade full-time with peace of mind. The goal was never just to chase higher returns, but to build a repeatable, disciplined system that I could stick to over the long term.
 
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considerably better, compared to simply holding the index
I guess you would need to beat the index by at least as much as the salary you could be otherwise earning, given you say you’re doing it full time?

I spent quite a bit of time years ago programming Forex bots and really enjoyed it, but in the end I felt my day job was a safer less stressful bet.
 
Even accounting for trading charges and taxes?

It's impossible not to be skeptical if you can't/won't really go into detail.
Yes, I account for both trading charges and taxes. Even after those, I’ve beaten the returns of my old salaried job, which is why I was able to make the switch full-time.

I completely get the skepticism, trading “success stories” online are untrue more often than not, and the strategies that people post are not profitable, or the stories come with someone selling something. That’s not the case here. My aim in posting isn’t to prove anything with numbers. It’s just to offer a helping hand to people who are where I was a few years ago: curious, skeptical, but genuinely interested in whether it can be done.
I guess you would need to beat the index by at least as much as the salary you could be otherwise earning, given you say you’re doing it full time?

I spent quite a bit of time years ago programming Forex bots and really enjoyed it, but in the end I felt my day job was a safer less stressful bet.
Fair question. For me, the returns have beaten my old salary after charges and taxes. But to be honest, that’s only part of the story. What mattered just as much was independence, flexibility, and the satisfaction of building something on my own terms.

And as per my original post, I completely agree with you about Forex being stressful. I found it brutal, and I’d only ever recommend trading it as a side hustle. If you had to rely on it to put food on the table, you’d end up in hospital with the stress.
 
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