Of course when considering buying an EV it is worth remembering that if your current petrol of Diesel car is working fine and you are only doing 6000 Km a year then the most environmentally friendly thing to do, by far, is just keep your current car.
Purchasing a new car
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Blackrock1
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Can't disagree theee
That makes intuitive sense but isn't necessarily true. The embodied carbon from the manufacture of an iCE vehicle is a relatively minor component of the total lifetime emissions. The vast majority of a typical ICE car's emissions will be from buring fuel throughout its life. For a car used less than average, this is nevertheless true.
Depending on the distance driven and the energy source mix of the electricity used to charge an EV, there will be break even point at which the most environmentally friendly thing to do (as measured by carbon emissions) would be to change to a new EV. A car driven less than average may also be charged during off-peak hours where the proportion of renewables is higher than peak times.
Not to forget that the OP has stated that the 09 car has reached the end of the line in any case.
Not necessarily.
Car tyres produce vastly more particle pollution than exhausts, tests show
Toxic particles from tyre wear almost 2,000 times worse than from exhausts as weight of cars increases
www.theguardian.com
I accept that point. i should have said 'carbon emissions'.
The position regarding tires and brakes is more complex. EVs tend to be heavier and while the increased frequency of tire replacement tends to be overstated, tire dust pollution is likely higher with EVs. The opposite is true with brake dust since EVs benefit from regenerative braking and brake pads/discs rarely if ever need replaced.
For me, the reason I got rid of my diesel was the emerging evidence of the impact of nitrogen oxides on air quality and resulting effects on respiratory and cardiovascular diseases.
The position regarding tires and brakes is more complex. EVs tend to be heavier and while the increased frequency of tire replacement tends to be overstated, tire dust pollution is likely higher with EVs. The opposite is true with brake dust since EVs benefit from regenerative braking and brake pads/discs rarely if ever need replaced.
For me, the reason I got rid of my diesel was the emerging evidence of the impact of nitrogen oxides on air quality and resulting effects on respiratory and cardiovascular diseases.
Wandering_Dazed
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Care to clarify this? I presume this is a response to a non PHEV Hybrid?
You cannot compare different 'fuel' consumption between ICE, BEV and Hybrid on a single plane. There are many different factors and personal circumstance to consider. (Again maybe I am misreading your reply to other previous posts)
I generally dislike "generalisations" in general commentary about what the mass populace's general best options are in terms of cars!
Would you suggest then a "What's the best option for motive transport for me/us?" template with a detailed financial, lifestyle, and environmental statementss like the Financial Makeover template?
If so would you volunteer your expertise to developing such a template?
If so would you volunteer your expertise to developing such a template?
Wandering_Dazed
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To get back to the OPs post with an ICE car with a timing belt failure... and to be fair to my post above:
PHEV's or Hybrids are the inbetween option between ICE and BEV's. There is soooo much FUD about BEV's (which I remember contributing to on another post on here a while back which degnerated into...well whatever) and generalisation it is pretty frustrating from my side as a car enthuasiast. (For context I still own a diesel guzzler but going to move to BEV asap)
My quick(ish) thoughts here are:
R: for the op if you have low mileage and can charge at home either an L1/L2 charger get an electric car depending on your budget. The second hand BEV market is great value with most makes offering 8 years/100kms battery guarantee. Then get the best leccy plan and charge overnight at the lowest rates....
Edit: Typos
PHEV's or Hybrids are the inbetween option between ICE and BEV's. There is soooo much FUD about BEV's (which I remember contributing to on another post on here a while back which degnerated into...well whatever) and generalisation it is pretty frustrating from my side as a car enthuasiast. (For context I still own a diesel guzzler but going to move to BEV asap)
My quick(ish) thoughts here are:
- ICE cars, proven technology and easy access to "fuel" however both Diesel/Petrol cars have many more components/sensors that can cause issues. Whether that is a DPF,CAT, MAF, Timing Belt etc etc If you like your ICE car and the range it provides if you do long distance runs <200 miles daily. Then yes currently an ICE car is perhaps a better choice.
- PHEV/Hybrids, in short for me this is the hybrid mix of both worlds where you gain none of the benefits of either. Hybrids merge both technologies together so in 'general' you have a battery/motor for short distances (say 30kms) and an ICE engine to supplement the range/charge the battery. So for example, say you only are doing school runs, yes the Hybrid will do so under electric power but it's also towing the ICE engine/batteries at the same time.
- BEV's - I'll start out by saying, I agree not for everyone especially those "road warriors" out there or people who cannot charge from home. Public charging is not overall going to be cheaper than AppleGreen prices, but probable less or comparable. On the topic of fossil fuels/emissions, I think the BEV wins here because there are no harmful emmissions on a day to day basis. With the rightLeccy plan you can charge a BEV for a lot lower than fossil fuel prices at home. Now, how many of us here regularly take trips of 200 miles+ on a regular basis? Personally most of my diesel cars time is nipping to the shops which it absolutely hates! Then remove all the spark plugs, belts, sensors etc from the equation, most BEVs need a service every 2 years to check coolant, tyres and brakes that is all.
R: for the op if you have low mileage and can charge at home either an L1/L2 charger get an electric car depending on your budget. The second hand BEV market is great value with most makes offering 8 years/100kms battery guarantee. Then get the best leccy plan and charge overnight at the lowest rates....Edit: Typos
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Wandering_Dazed
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Where I have I suggested anything, but perhaps you haven't had time to read my follow up post.
Has there been a need for a template for decisions around the pro's and con's on ICE vehicles?
Maybe such a template may work if there was a volume of posts on this subject. But like the Financial Makeover (which is great) there are a huge amount of variables, if focusing on BEV's first up will be average mileage and ability to charge at home and then onto leccy plans.
Ultimately surely the perfect answer for "What's the best option for motive transport for me/us?" will be Public Transport. But that one is for our overlords.
Seems to me to be a bit of a disingenuous question...
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Not if you live in the sticks and have experienced the disconnectedness of TFI's services.
Unsurprising you'd see it that way, but horses for courses. There, maybe that's the ultimate answer, horses.
I never said you suggested anything, I asked a perfectly reasonable question. Maybe you need to read my post - here's a reminder -
Wandering_Dazed
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No, it's not necessarily true but it is almost certainly true, particularly in this case. Due to the dirty nature of ICE cars traditionally the tailpipe emissions accounted for 80% of lifetime pollution. Newer ICE cars, in the last 20 years, are cleaner but the production costs are still energy intensive.
The fuel sources used to generate the electricity used to both make the car and then generate the electricity that fuels the car is also a major factor. Until quite recently if you had an EV in Ireland it was partially Turf powered.
If you are buying an EV with a battery made in China then it has a much higher carbon footprint than an EV with a battery made in Europe or America due to China's reliance on coal to generate electricity. If the battery was made in France (I know that doesn't happen, it's just an example) then the car would be much more environmentally friendly since they use nuclear power. It's complex but a good rule of thumb is that if you do low mileage the most environmentally thing you can do it keep your existing car.
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BIG-notorious
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Not really that simple.
- Say your ICE gets 5 litres per 100km on average, that's 300 litres of fuel for 6,000km annually. At a conversion factor of 2.6kg carbon per litre, that's 780kg carbon per year. Plus NOx etc.
- A new BEV will use around 15kwh for the same 100km or 900kwh annually. That's 330g per kwh from the Irish grid or 300kg or so of carbon annually, or an annual saving of 480kg (again, ignoring NOx etc).
BUT the OP's fuel usage may well be much higher than 5 litres per 100km- the last pure ICE I had was around 6 litres per 100km in ideal conditions, and 6,000km suggests a lot of short low speed runs which kill your fuel efficiency, So 7.5 litres per 100km may be more realistic for the OP. That brings the annual carbon emissions up to 1,170 and the annual carbon savings from changing to a BEV to 870kg (slow runs are more efficient for a BEV, the opposite to an ICE) which brings the carbon break-even time from changing to a brand new BEV all the way down from 15 to 8 years.
- And of course you also have all the benefits of a newer car (much more safety and much less maintenance).
And of course if carbon reduction is the goal there's also the option of fueling a diesel with HVO, although there's debate on whether that reduces carbon emissions by 90% or increases it by 50% which basically depends on the feedstock used.
Solar panels are entirely irrelevant to the cost of fueling a BEV. The feed in tariff is more than night rate electricity, so it will always be cheaper to fuel at night and feed any daytime solar surplus back to the grid rather than use the surplus to charge your car during the day. The only time that could change would be if you were living totally off-grid and the alternative to charging from your own solar was charging from the public network.
Blackrock1
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Not enough people get this, also removes the need for the car to be plugged in constantly to.collect the solar
Agreed, though as you say the chances are it's higher than that.
The EPA figure for the Irish grid is now 255kg per KWh. That's mainly due to the importation of much cleaner nuclear power from the UK grid.
Where did you get the 7,000kg figure?
BIG-notorious
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226g per kwh per their website right now. That's dropped significantly since the last time I looked it up. https://www.seai.ie/data-and-insights/seai-statistics/conversion-factors
Googled it essentially. I needed the details for work but I've frankly no idea where the document with the relevant reference is currently located.
The benefits of importing clean, sustainable, environmentally friendly nuclear power.
Yea, I looked before and I can't see how anyone can put a figure on it as there are so many variables. Chinese batteries have a way more environmentally damaging manufacturing process than US or European batteries and older EV's were worse than newer EV's etc.
It’s a wonder the marketing people haven’t exploited that angle.