Public sector pay rise

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Purple, there was a confusion there. Johnno75 was referring to the pandemic, not the Great Recession of 2008-2012.

There were two, three or even four paycuts during 2008 to 2013 ish.

Those pay cuts have, more or less, been restored by pay rises since around 2016.
 
The pay cuts were not small and included a very large decrease in take home pay with the introduction of the ASC (additional superannuation contribution) which is an extra tax imposed on public servants only.
It was an additional contribution to their pensions. They still come nowhere near finding them, the vast majority of private sector employees also don’t fund their own state pension.
It might be justified for pre 95 entrants but those on the single scheme post 2013 have vastly inferior pensions.
I agree. Both pre 95 and retired public servants should have had to share the pain.
Many also risked their health and that of their families working in crowded environments before vaccinations during the pandemic.
While there was considerable uncertainty and therefore considerable bravery amongst employees in the healthcare industry there was actually low to moderate risk for them and none worth talking about in the education sector.
Outside of Covid there is no healthcare or state employment sector that makes it into the top 100 most dangerous jobs.
 
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According to the CSO, over the seven years from Q42014 average hourly earnings in the public sector have risen by 14%, and the private sector by 21%.

Inflation was 7% over the same period. This left public sector workers with about a 7% real pay increase, approximately half the real pay increase experienced by the private sector of 13%.

A lot of ground has been lost by public sector workers over the period and I don't think there is an Irish journalist who has spotted this.
 
Plenty of people in the private sector took cuts when the Tiger collapsed and many many more lost their livelihood during Covid.

Outside of the banks, increments are almost non-existent in the private sector. Given the fact that 4 major banks will have closed in Ireland over the last 10 years and the fact that almost every bank branch in the country will be gone in the next 10, increments won't really exist in the Private Sector by then,

Increments are really only a reward for not resigning and I really really really wish the Public Sector would call them what they really are, a pay rise.
 
Okay, but the chances of testing positive for Covid was relatively low and the chances of becoming very is or dying from Covid are extremely low. If the chances of infection was a multiple of other sectors then it would be of real concern.
You'd hardly expect a Magazine for teachers not to play up the risk. They need something to talk about when they are telling each other and everyone else how wonderful they are.
 
Fair points but in the period leading up to the 2008 crash the State sector enjoyed massive pay increases, well ahead of the private sector. Picking a segment on the graph really tells us nothing.
 
Plenty of people in the private sector took cuts when the Tiger collapsed and many many more lost their livelihood during Covid.

During the Great Recession 2008-2012, there were cuts to overtime, bonuses, etc., and lots of people lost their jobs.

However, cuts to basic pay were rare, mainly due to the fact that neither the employer nor the workers want it to happen.

The only sector where there were general cuts to basic pay was the public sector.
 
You'd hardly expect a Magazine for teachers not to play up the risk. They need something to talk about when they are telling each other and everyone else how wonderful they are.
No need for the side swipe. The statistics compiled in the UK speak for themselves.
 
Fair point, but it's also fair to say that no permanent employee lost their job in the Public sector, despite their employer effectively being bankrupt. In fact their employer is still borrowing to fund day to day expenditure, including paying their wages.
 
Nobody was mace compulsorily redundant, correct.

But numbers fell.

For example, local government employment fell from 38,000 in 2008 to 28,500 now.
 
The State may have run current budget deficits in 2020 and maybe in 2021, yes.

But not in 2022.
 
As is every country in the world, so what's your point? You may be confusing the Goverments with business owners, etc.
Your chip on the shoulder with regards to public servants is beginning to wear somewhat thin at this stage. Is it possible you didn't make the grade at one stage or another?
 
As is every country in the world, so what's your point?
Bankrupt employers rarely give pay rises.
You may be confusing the Goverments with business owners, etc.
Fiscal responsibility is important to businesses who are spending their own money. It should be important to governments too, even though they are spending other people's money.

Your chip on the shoulder with regards to public servants is beginning to wear somewhat thin at this stage. Is it possible you didn't make the grade at one stage or another?
No, I've a high regard for the Irish Civil Service. I think they do a good job, are significantly under staffed and at the higher levels significantly under paid.
I find the need amongst teachers in particular, and nurses to a slightly lesser extent, for continuous validation by strangers to be bizarre. I also find self-aggrandisement distasteful. In that I am critical of them in that regard but both groups do an okay job. We have an average enough education system, significantly better than our very well funded health system.
I don't think we have a bad State Sector or that they are less hard working than the private sector or that they are over paid. I do think that the cancer that is Trade Unions causes vast waste and, in the case of the Healthcare Sector, considerable death and needless suffering. So I don't have a chip on my shoulder but I do have an intense dislike of Unions and the impact they have on the poor and vulnerable.
 
So the freeze on increments under Haddington Road was a pay cut but the payment of increments nowadays is not a pay rise? Or are you referring to those on 80k or more, who in fairness, took a temporary pay cut (which plenty of people in the private sector on those salaries also took).

I've never denied that the Public Sector took some pain, my issue is the failure of public sector unions and employees to acknowledge that an increment is a payrise.
 
I find the need amongst teachers in particular, and nurses to a slightly lesser extent, for continuous validation by strangers to be bizarre. I also find self-aggrandisement distasteful.


Our education system does remarkably well by international comparison considering how underfunded it is. I am teaching over 30 years and have yet to meet a teacher who looks for continuous validation from strangers. It would be nice not to be vilified so often by random strangers!

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release...what it is, on average, across OECD countries
 
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