Public sector pay rise

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Purchases are somebody else's income.

So if the CPI is up 7.5%, then somebody's income is up 7.5%.

Some of the people receiving the higher incomes are energy exporting nations.

Others are hotel owners / restaurants / lots of different types of businesses.

(you see some small firms on AAM reporting bumper profits)

Corporate profits seem to be very strong.


Given this, I'm not sure that PS will be happy with a 1% pay rise, if other earners are getting 7.5% extra.
 
A "pay rise" less than the rate of inflation is a pay cut surely?
No, it's still a pay rise, but one which is below the rate of inflation.
Yes obviously a society where teachers cannot afford to buy a house is preferable to one where they can.
I disagree. Why do you think it's a good thing?
We have a sufficient supply of teachers. Doubling or trebling their pay so that they can afford a house would not be a good idea. I'd rather see housing getting cheaper. That would involve a massive stock market crash and a corresponding reduction in the cost of capital items generally. We need to undo over a decade of QE.
Will there be increases in productivity in the public sector to match the pay rise sought? (Because I haven’t seen much of that around lately!)
While it's very hard to measure that it's also very important to try.
In by opinion we need significantly more Civil Servants but no net overall increase in State employees.

If we can get enough suitably paid people to do a particular job then they are paid enough. The market decides what suitable pay levels are as long as the market is open.
 
If they have the same misunderstanding of things they won't be. If they understand that a 7.5% increase in prices does not equate to a 7.5% pay rise then maybe they will. We don't produce petroleum or coffee or glass or clothes or plastics or TV's or Phones or most of the food we consume. You do get that most of that extra price is just extra cost, right?
 
I also read that 37 hours per week imposed due to Troika will reduce back to 35 hours from this July. Is this the case? Happy days if so!
 
We have a sufficient supply of teachers. Doubling or trebling their pay so that they can afford a house would not be a good idea. I'd rather see housing getting cheaper.
There is a big shortage of teachers, particularly substitute teachers at primary level. I agree that reducing the cost of housing would be preferable to pay rises chasing house prices.
 
What you are proposing is a massive deflationary depression. We nearly had one in 2008, but goverments and central banks decided to throw everything at preventing it and, largely, succeeded.
The last time Europe had a significant deflationary depression was in the 1930's. It wasn't a good experience. Eventually economic growth resumed in the 1950's, although quite a lot of stuff happened inbetween.
 
Based on my limited recent experience in my dealings with various sections of the public service, productivity is certainly down compared to pre-covid levels. My experience does not count for a lot but I’ve read the news reportage and heard the usual anecdotal stories which support my view.

Revenue staff are unavailable after 1:30pm.

The passport office is effectively uncontactable by phone or webchat (email contact is non-existent) and is engaging in inefficient practices leading to unnecessary delay.

The RTB has recently updated its website and processes but the customer experience is woeful (I’m waiting to hear back from them in relation to deactivating my account and linking it to my new one).

The LSRA complaints process is taking up to two years to deal with complaints, and sometimes longer.

Ditto with the FSPO.

Teachers have not been working at full tilt during the pandemic. Different schools worked at different paces (“home schooling” in my case was an email on a Friday night with lessons for the following week, whereas another school locally had sporadic online lessons for the children).

People with disabilities are suffering owing to the unavailability of therapeutic services.

Only today, I’ve read that Iarnrod Éireann have lost their catering contractor resulting in no catering on inter city lines.

The list goes on, and whilst I’m not blaming the workers, the reality is that the powers that be are currently presiding over systems that are inefficient, less productive than they could be and not always fit for purpose.

I think personally that the state blanket policy of allowing staff to work from home (and indeed insisting in some instances) has masked a drop in productivity across the entire civil and public service, and indeed the economy. However, nobody seems to be willing to do anything about it.

Hence my earlier comment concerning increased productivity.
 
There is a big shortage of teachers, particularly substitute teachers at primary level. I agree that reducing the cost of housing would be preferable to pay rises chasing house prices.
This could go off on a tangent very quickly so I'll just make the point that saying that teachers salaries should be increased until they can afford a house is a really really really stupid idea. Highlighting housing affordability issues is a great idea but that solution is moronic.
 
All income = all expenditure

If costs go up, then somebody's income has gone up.

Yes, clearly, many of these people are abroad.
 
All income = all expenditure

If costs go up, then somebody's income has gone up.

Yes, clearly, many of these people are abroad.
Yes, but their pay might not have gone up, their profits and their pay may have decreased.
If a person made a profit they may not live in this country. The profit was probably made by a pension fund that traded a commodity that increased in price and led to the cost going up.
 

Didnt Social welfare and Revenue implement and handle that pandemic payment at the drop of a hat or should we ignore that
 
Didnt Social welfare and Revenue implement and handle that pandemic payment at the drop of a hat or should we ignore that
Fair point. The new structures introduced during Covid that were built from scratch were generally excellent. The problem is changing existing structures were Unionised intransigence and bad work practices are engrained. The State Sector is certainly not alone in that.
 
Didnt Social welfare and Revenue implement and handle that pandemic payment at the drop of a hat or should we ignore that
To Revenue’s credit, they did. That was during the pandemic and the subsidies were a crucial lifeline for many businesses adversely affected by the lockdowns eg the hospitality sector. Revenue staff will remain working from home until September when “hybrid” working arrangements will kick in i.e. working from home combined with office working arrangements.

But Revenue’s focus on administration of the TWSS and EWSS subsidies came at a significant cost to the State. Enforcement and tax collection from defaulters ceased entirely during the pandemic period (two years), including for businesses who defaulted but who could easily afford to pay and businesses unaffected by the pandemic which earned the same, if not more, than what they did before the pandemic.

Billions in tax debt was warehoused, by default, and Revenue are on record as stating that up to 25% of warehoused debt will not be recoverable and will have to be written off.

Productivity will have to get back to pre-covid levels if the State has any hope of minimising the projected loss to the exchequer.
 

Is this official policy and why are they not available?

The passport office is effectively uncontactable by phone or webchat (email contact is non-existent) and is engaging in inefficient practices leading to unnecessary delay.

Not one post in this thread since January




People with disabilities are suffering owing to the unavailability of therapeutic services.
Political/resourcing decision. This was severe prior to Covid.

Only today, I’ve read that Iarnrod Éireann have lost their catering contractor resulting in no catering on inter city lines.

The private sector contractor can't/won't provide the service for the agreed fee. It has to be re-tendered. How is that a public sector productivity issue?


I think your criticisms are overly harsh - "the entire civil and public service"? Literally everyone?

"nobody seems to be willing to do anything about it" - That's false. In relation to the passport office, there has been well documented recruitment drive, drafting of staff in from other areas of the public service and new facilities brought online.

Can't definitively state what the effects on productivity are from a WFH perspective but the state policy is mirroring the approach or adopting a more restrictive approach of some parts of the private sector.
 
No pay rises above 1%.
Anything else would cause a wage price spiral.
Get used to the real world of higher cost of living.
Michael McGrath , the Minister for Public Expenditure has confirmed that the Government will go beyond the terms of the current pay agreement albeit in a balanced way.
Any increase will , I would imagine , not match the inflation figure but thankfully nor will it be as low as 1%
 
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Not one post in this thread since January
https://www.breakingnews.ie/amp/ire...000-people-waiting-for-passports-1299054.html.

Fair enough, obviously not all civil or public servants/bodies are unproductive, but my experience of several disparate unlinked public service bodies in various sectors doesn’t paint a good picture.

I used to be a Public Servant and we all know how it works. In many instances, what would take a week to do in the private sector can take months in the public sector.

I wish the public service employees well in the negotiations and undoubtedly a pay rise is warranted in many instances. I also wish I could get through to Revenue, the Passport Office, have my complaint dealt with efficiently by the LSRA, register my tenancy with RTB, buy a coffee and a sandwich on the train and so on.
 
Oh dear. This news could just tip Purple over the edge when he finds out.
 
The reason why there are delays up to eight weeks is that when you contact the passport office and they confirm that everything is in order, they will prioritise issuing you the passport. I know this because I was in the same boat last July. I posted about it in the thread I referenced.

https://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/passport-application-delays.208392/post-1737607

The reason why there are so many applications in the system is that >50% of clowns (applicants) didn’t bother to meet the requirements. Hardly a civil service productivity issue.

Current turn around time for a first time applicant is 30 days. Seems reasonable for such a valuable document.

I used to be a Public Servant and we all know how it works. In many instances, what would take a week to do in the private sector can take months in the public sector.
Yeah, not sold. Maybe if it’s a money sucking activity. Try getting customer service from Eir, Vodafone, an Irish bank. I am literally waiting for a plumber to turn up at the house who has missed two earlier appointments! No reason, no apology.

I don’t know anything about the RTB but aren’t they registering 99.9% of all possible rental properties in the state at the pretty much the same time?

buy a coffee and a sandwich on the train”

I mean the private sector operator won’t pay enough to get the staff it needs to provide the service it contractually agreed to?!! It’s the private sector leaving you high and dry!!

I feel like I’m defending the PS here which I don’t intend to. But equally, overly general criticism of low productivity is just a simplistic narrative.
 
The reason why there are so many applications in the system is that >50% of clowns (applicants) didn’t bother to meet the requirements. Hardly a civil service productivity issue.
I submitted an application to the Passport Office in January and still await a passport renewal for my daughter. The application process in my instance has failed. I’m also not a clown. (Way to go with the overly general criticism and simplistic narrative there @Itchy!)

I won’t rehearse my issues here, but do feel free to cast your eye over this thread which identifies my ongoing issues, all of which speak to productivity and efficiency:


Anyways, I don’t have the inclination to be dealing with endless tit-for-tat exchanges with a person who labels paying passport customers as clowns, so the very best of luck to you.
 
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