If the government was sacking people for taking sick leave after say 30 years service and they had to spend money on recruitment of a replacement and training of a replacement and still have similar salary costs with the replacement then people would still be complaining
Public sector bashing-anyone else sick of it?
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Why sack them? Just don't pay them when they are not working. It's a job, not a entitlement to an income.
Z
z104
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Bradford scoring punishes a person who takes a day off sick and comes back to work the next day as they feel they need to get the job done where as it can reward somebody who takes 10 days off and who might not really be sick .
You can play the Bradford system if you want but it should not be used as a bible.
You can play the Bradford system if you want but it should not be used as a bible.
To get back to the thread title...
Yes, very sick of it. Too many ill-informed comments from arm chair economists.
The private sector contributors think the public sector have huge salaries, loads of time off, massive pensions. The public sector contributors think the private sector have even greater salaries, bonuses, perks, better promotional opportunities.
What is particularly tiresome is the hyperbole & hearsay..
Yes, very sick of it. Too many ill-informed comments from arm chair economists.
The private sector contributors think the public sector have huge salaries, loads of time off, massive pensions. The public sector contributors think the private sector have even greater salaries, bonuses, perks, better promotional opportunities.
What is particularly tiresome is the hyperbole & hearsay..
Interesting that so many from the private sector are posting during working time.
Some posters have made the point that if you are working in the public sector and are good at your job etc then you have nothing to worry about. What concerns me are the blanket critisisms by the private sector on all public sector workers coupled with the asinine arguments that the private sector are somehow immune to wasting money or being inefficient etc.
Some posters have made the point that if you are working in the public sector and are good at your job etc then you have nothing to worry about. What concerns me are the blanket critisisms by the private sector on all public sector workers coupled with the asinine arguments that the private sector are somehow immune to wasting money or being inefficient etc.
BoscoTalking
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i think its ironic that the private sector workers post here in frustration and suggest that 10% + cuts should occur even though its fairly certain to the onlooker that if these occur similar cuts / freezing / rationalizations will occur in the private sector thereafter- IBEC will see to that.
its just that obvious to everyone bar public sector that huge changes have to occur to make the public sector more efficient...
its just that obvious to everyone bar public sector that huge changes have to occur to make the public sector more efficient...
Wake up, this has started in the private sector last year if not before and is only on the table now for public sector.
S
S.L.F
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Can anyone find staffing levels in the P.S. from 10 years ago and compare it with levels today.
DublinTexas
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I can't tell you 10 year ago but I can tell you that the number of workers in the public sector in 2008 rose by 5,200 to 369,100.
And if I trust the CSO figures, than public servants are paid on average € 49,150 per annum in comparison to € 40,500 in the private sector and if you compare that to the average industrial wage of €34,000 than you can draw your own conclusions.
So we have about 4,239,848 in population and for the following caluclation let's exclude the under 15 years old which are 864,449, which means that about 3,375,399 people are left which could in theory be part of the workforce. Now 369,100 public sector workers makes 10.93% of the total theoretical workforce.
Do we really need nearly 11% of the workforce in the public service?
This has nothing to do with bashing the public service sector, some of them are needed and I don't know if I could justify to pay only €1,196 a week to Gardi giving the crime wave and risk that is going on.
We simply can't affort to have 11% of the workforce to be public sector workers who earn on average 44.55% more than the average industrial wage or 21.35% than their counterparts in the private sector.
If I multipy 369,100 times 49,150 than I have a wage bill (without any other cost like pension etc.) of 18,141,265,000 € a year or better said every day we pay wages of 50,392,402 € for the public service (yes that is 50+ Million) or to make it even easier, the public sector costs everybody (including childre) 11.88€ a day. And the question is what do I get for my 11.88€ a day?
So in our economic downturn and job losses in the private sector that have not been seen in a long period of time the question is really if we can affort to have a public service this big.
I don't think we can actualy have these many people in public service and yes I do understand that putting them out of work means that they get on the live register and get social welfare of some kind, but a private employer is making the same logic. If they can't affort the staff than they let them go. That is a normal cycle of life.
Now I do not argue that all public service is bad but my points is that if this crisis goes on at one point or another we need to borrow 50 Million a day just to pay our public service without doing anything else and hence we need to make cutbacks.
The idea of the unions to raise the tax to 48% in the high band so that we can continue paying higher wages to the public sector is just a sign how out of touch these people are. The higher the taxes the lower the spend which than results in more unemployeed in the private sector which results in even lower indirect taxes (and let's face it out indirect taxes are a large part of the budget). If that spiral continues sooner or later the majority of out taxes are going to pay for the public service and than what?
Now I'm sorry if this upsets some people here but in my company we just announced a major staff cutback and the goverment ignored all warnings and did nothing to help these people. So if we slim down because of the crisis why can't our public service?
Complainer
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And huge wastage within the private sector too.
I really don't believe that this stuff is still happening, but if it, do something about it. Report him in writing by registered post to the Chief Officer of his agency.
LOL and the Chief Officer will do what? Imagine what bureaucracy will get in his way if he tries to fight sick days and imagine the fight with the unions to boot.
I personally know of public servants who clock in and leave work to do other things and this is in different areas.
Does anyone have the figure for how many people are fired from their civil service job annually. It's probably zero.
Look people, there is no point arguing about these things. Brian 'Mugabe' Cowan will do things his way. Its his Government and he will run it as he sees fit so everyone should just shut up!
I reckon his advisors must have been ready to cry when the words came out of his mouth!
I reckon his advisors must have been ready to cry when the words came out of his mouth!
BoscoTalking
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wide awake thanks. it has started I know that - but i think will get dramatically worse if the money is not spent by public sector workers to prop up small businesses. more on dole. less income to spend, butchers / bakers / etc all out of jobs. In light of this, public sector workers should realise that the "bashing" by private sector openly - even though it will lead to worse impacts in their own sector should be understood for what it is - the last cry to call a halt to the crazy spending and low value for €€ we have been getting from the public sector.
Complainer, if this is a genuine statement I think you are being very naive.
I know 6 people fairly well who all work in different areas/locations of the public sector and civil service - every one of them simply add their annual sick leave entitlement to their holiday entitlement as if it was a completely normal and natural thing to do.
In fact I'm sure I recall public sector workers on this very site, on more than a few occasions, admitting that this is a widespread practice.
(And yes BTW I am, believe it or not, getting sick of public sector bashing)
That's 'cause we're all now unemployed...
Would say that it is a possibility that the person who was talking about the sick leave was a prison officer. They are notorious for taking sick leave.
About five years ago I was in the company of a prison officer in the pub who stated he had X number of annual leave days plus X number of sick leave days as well. As I work in the civil service I nearly fell off the bar stool in shock at what he said.
Sick Leave in the Civil Service is closely monitored and explanations are required when persons are in excess of the limits (Certified and UnCertified) and do receive warning letters even before this. From my memory (> 20 years) I have seen very little abuse of the system and most likely the cases being talked about are exceptions.
About five years ago I was in the company of a prison officer in the pub who stated he had X number of annual leave days plus X number of sick leave days as well. As I work in the civil service I nearly fell off the bar stool in shock at what he said.
Sick Leave in the Civil Service is closely monitored and explanations are required when persons are in excess of the limits (Certified and UnCertified) and do receive warning letters even before this. From my memory (> 20 years) I have seen very little abuse of the system and most likely the cases being talked about are exceptions.
so I wasnt imagining it then
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I 've seen little abuse of the system. I'm not sure if its the same in other areas of the public sector but I pay into an ICP (income continuance plan) and this covers salary if ever out sick so the misinformed posters above should know that their tax (and my tax) isn't being used by me.
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