PTSB Public meeting on PTSB Redress Scheme - Thursday 31st March

Discussion in 'Tracker Redress' started by Brendan Burgess, 16 Mar 2016.

  1. Brendan Burgess

    Brendan Burgess Founder

    Last edited: 22 Mar 2016
    Padraic has sent this email today

    I am writing this email to inform you of a meeting I am holding for all affected customers of Permanent tsb and the ongoing Tracker Mortgage issue.

    Date 31st March
    Time : 8 pm
    Location: Main Ballroom, City West Hotel

    At this meeting I will be discussing some of the key issues that are arising, which fall into the following categories.

    1) The margin issue (this is likely to be a High Court challenge)

    2) The Redress Appeals process

    3) Accounts which are currently outside the Redress process

    I truly believe that in order to get matters fully resolved satisfactorily, a unified approach is the best way forward for all affected customers. With this in mind I would ask that you do everything possible to attend this meeting. If there is a large turnout it will send a clear and loud signal of the dissatisfaction customers are having at present with Permanent tsb.

    It is of extreme importance that everybody affected by the actions of Permanent tsb attends this meeting (both in regards to the Redress scheme and the wider Tracker related issues and the ongoing Central Bank Investigation). I would ask that you support your own particular case by your attendance at this meeting.

    I will be inviting a variety of press people to report from the meeting which will highlight the concerns being expressed to me by affected account holders.

    I look forward to seeing you on the night with what I hope will be a packed event. The importance of this meeting should not be underestimated and for this reason I would ask you to please attend to support the issues being raised.

    Can you confirm your attendance by return email to :

    PS: Please forward this to anyone else you know who is affected by these issues.


    Last edited: 22 Mar 2016
    Wardy7 likes this.
  2. Wardy7

    Wardy7 Guest

  3. Black_Adder

    Black_Adder Frequent Poster

    This needs support as Padraic Kissane has been to the forefront of the Tracker Rate debacle.

    Individuals may have vital bits of evidence to help.

    All of us will be better than individuals.

    The challenged middle class need to seize this opportunity as we do not handle complaining too well. If not for yourself, do this for your children.
    Wardy7 likes this.
  4. rodger

    rodger Guest

    Great idea

    Looking forward to it

    And also BOI and Aib similar meetings
  5. AAM_User

    AAM_User Frequent Poster

    Any location on this Brendan ?
  6. PadKiss

    PadKiss Frequent Poster

    Hi all will have the location and time confirmed on Tuesday next just finalising room size and best location to suit as many as possible who want to attend. It will be at the kick off time of 8pm on 31st March. Padraic
  7. Brendan Burgess

    Brendan Burgess Founder

    I have updated the meeting details in the first post

    I will be attending.
  8. PadKiss

    PadKiss Frequent Poster

    Hi All
    I have had a great response from all customers that I have written to directly in relation to the meeting. I am hopeful through this site and in the press to get the numbers higher. I will have customers speaking on the night which will reflect accurately what has occurred and the anger towards the margins being charged by PTSB. I am again appealing to all affected customers to attend as this will be the best signal to both the lender and the Central Bank that there is an issue here that must be addressed. The importance of this meeting cannot be stated loudly enough. Thanks Brendan for supporting the event. I look forward to seeing everyone on the night and will update further next week. If you have any questions in the meantime do not hesitate to contact on
    Wardy7 likes this.
  9. AppleSun

    AppleSun Frequent Poster

    Will be there.
  10. rodger

    rodger Guest

    I'm definitely going to be there!

    Even though I'm a customer of Aib and BOI I'm looking forward to the first actual meeting of people affected by this tracker injustice.

    It is reassuring to see all the posts on this site in recent days.

    See you Thursday 8pm
  11. Brendan Burgess

    Brendan Burgess Founder

    Good article in today's Indo Padraic

    Bank faces court case over tracker mortgage scandal

    "But financial adviser Pádraic Kissane, who has been working on tracker-overcharging cases for seven years, said around 500 of the affected PTSB customers were restored to a much higher tracker margin of 3.5pc.

    "This is the biggest concern I have with the PTSB redress scheme - some 500 people have been offered tracker rates that are far higher than they expected. It now appears they will have to go to court," he said.

    Because of this, Mr Kissane claimed the redress scheme that the bank is conducting was failing hundreds of those affected customers.

    Mr Kissane has now called a public meeting in a bid to put a pressure group together to get higher levels of compensation for PTSB customers who overpaid because they lost their trackers. The meeting is in the City West Hotel, Saggart, Co Dublin, next Thursday, at 8pm."
  12. Brendan Burgess

    Brendan Burgess Founder

    And from yesterday's Sunday Times

    Central Bank powerless to help ’cheated’ PTSB tracker customers

    The Central Bank of Ireland has washed its hands of complaints that a mortgage redress programme it ordered at Permanent TSB is short-changing many of the customers who were cheated out of cheap tracker mortgages.

    The bank, which is responsible for financial regulation, has told financial adviser Padraic Kissane, who represents about 150 Permanent TSB customers who are seeking redress, that it is powerless to intervene in private contracts between banks and their customers.

    An enforcement investigation into Permanent TSB will not consider the interest margins that the state-controlled lender is offering to customers under the redress programme, the Central Bank confirmed. Customers have complained that some of the new interest rates being offered by Permanent TSB are so high that customers have little to gain from recovering their tracker terms.

    The impasse has led Kissane to consider legal action on behalf of Permanent TSB customers.

    This would be highly embarrassing for the Central Bank, which had promised that its “first priority has been to address the customer detriment” under the redress programme.

    According to Permanent TSB, redress has been accepted by 90% of those who were wrongly denied tracker mortgages, a process that is costing the lender €40m.

    It has also set aside €100m to compensate other customers who were wrongly denied tracker mortgages but are not included in the current redress programme.

    Up to 200 of the bank’s customers are expected at a meeting that Kissane has organised at the Citywest hotel in Dublin on Thursday.

    Those attending will include Helen Grogan from Palmerstown in Dublin, whose tracker margin was increased unilaterally by Permanent TSB.
    She switched her mortgage from the building society EBS in 2008 because Permanent TSB offered a discounted tracker margin of 0.8 percentage points over the European Central Bank rate, a margin it later reduced to 0.6 points.

    However, the following year Permanent TSB increased the interest margin to 2.45 points.

    “This was a one-year product masquerading as a tracker mortgage,” she said.

    “I felt they tricked me by playing around with the term ‘tracker’. I would never have given up the lifetime tracker I had with EBS if I had known that Permanent TSB was offering only a one-year product.”

    Permanent TSB said that Grogan’s complaint against the bank had been turned down by the financial services ombudsman.
  13. Wardy7

    Wardy7 Guest

    This is slightly disheartening!

    Brendan, am I right in thinking that when we go to court, the decision will be entirely up to the Judge regardless of what the Central Bank say?
  14. Kate727

    Kate727 Guest

    I will have another few customers of Permanent TSB interested in that meeting, please post any update from today's meeting.
  15. rodger

    rodger Guest

    Great meeting tonight in citywest.

    There was a great turn out.

    All credit to Padraic Kissane.
  16. Bronte

    Bronte Frequent Poster

    Rodger, can you or someone else tell us how it went please. Maybe it will be reported in the papers.
  17. rodger

    rodger Guest


    The meeting started with Padraic introducing the issue of trackers.

    Then the particulars of PTSB.

    The issue of the 3.25% rate of course.

    And that frequently the customer agreement does not contain any rate allows PTSB to pluck this random number out of thin air.
    Even though a schedule of payments was included in the documentation. And that schedule indicates either (from memory) 0.75%, 0.85%, 1% or 1.1%

    On the plus side the Apr is stated on the agreement. Which is legally binding.

    Next some customers of PTSB took the floor and articulated their personal stories.

    These were very powerful. A lady Helen Grogan i think spoke about switching to PTSB to take advantage of the lower margin (0.8%) but after just one year she was offered a rate of ecb+2.65%

    A man spoke about selling his house because the tax relief of 300 was ending.
    He sold and later discovered from the redress he was being overcharged to the tune of €650 per month by the PTSB!

    Next Padraic spoke about redress and how painful this can be to people who have to revisit the situation.
    That PTSB has made this difficult for people.

    He spoke about the cost of not paying into a pension fund. The cost of not taking health insurance. The hidden health damage that has not yet emerged. The human cost in terms of relationships. And of one person who couldn't afford to service his car who was nearly killed when his tyre exploded.

    This was conveyed very well and it was great to be present among like minded people who could relate to the injustice being perpetrated by the banks.

    By refusing trackers the banks were effectively taking an interest free loan from customers at an already difficult time financially.

    Another person mentioned the option of going to the European court. And that the powers in Europe would be very interested to hear how customers are treated in this country.

    A couple of ladies spoke very well about how badly they were treated. And the lies told by ptsb about a "systems error".

    Thomas Ryan spoke about how PTSB lied in the past and it was because of phone records they were found out.

    A person recommended everyone apply for personal records using the data protection act (cheque for 6.35)

    Padraic hopes to employ a top class legal team to fight the case.

    I understand those affected by the rate issue will be asked to contribute to pay the barristers.

    The more customers who contribute the less per head.

    I hope others can add what I have missed because that is just a fraction of what was covered.

    Rte were there and they released a story about the meeting.

    I will post the link.

  18. rodger

    rodger Guest

  19. rodger

    rodger Guest

  20. rodger

    rodger Guest

    By the way the original reason for the court action is because the Central Bank is not prepared to rule on the rate issue

    That's a bit odd given the review they are supposed to be doing.

    If the central bank is not prepared to rule on this, then what else is in store for the customer?

    As posted earlier on this thread, the central bank promised that its "first priority has been to address the customer detriment" under the redress programme.