Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come from?

[boris]

Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

I have this vision that the weather next summer will be super and all of us civil servants will be on unpaid leave. Imagine how that will be spun!

Anyway, according to lunch time news the government seems to be back tracking so it might not happen.

I would say that the Government is unwilling to commit due to the element of transformation of public services that still has to be hammered out. As a Civil Servant and also a lot of my colleagues (if not all!) agree and have no issues with the proposals that are floating around at the moment.

 

[Purple]

Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Civil Service Annual Leave

Secretary 31 days
Deputy Secretary 31 days
Assistant Secretary 31 days
Principal (standard scale) 29 days
Assistant Principal (standard scale) 29 days
Administrative Officer 21 days, rising to 26 days after 5 years' service
Higher Executive Officer 26 days
Executive Officer 20 days, rising to 21 days after 5 years' service
Staff Officer 21 days
Clerical Officer 20 days
Services Officer 20 days
Services Attendant 20 days

Does that include so called “privilege days”?
A friend of mine works in an IT and he said that with flexi-days, holidays and the weeks that the place is closed over Christmas, he gets 54 days a year off.

 

[Howitzer]

Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come from?

Ok I have a suggestion. I haven't crunched the numbers on it but it should be relatively easy to do once original documentaion is sourced.

One of the biggest issues with regards to PS pay is the pension liability. Whether you agree with a Defined Benefit pension is neither here nor there, the big issue, for me, is that pension payments have been linked with the pay grades of current staff. As the payments to these staff increased with various benchmarking awards these pension payments have grown far in excess of their original costings.

My suggestion is index link PS pensions to inflation (minus housing costs which are volatile). This provides the savings into the future,

Roll back ALL PS penions to the date they were first awarded, index link them as above, and roll forward to the present day. No money is taken back, payments are simply reduced going forward. This provides the savings for the 2010 budget.

This explicitly targets those on pensions but I believe it is a fair mechanism, and one that should have been employed from the start.

There will certainly be an overhead initially in re-calculating the pensions. I would put a lower cut off point so you couldn't be brought under, say 30K.

I'd guesstimate the savings to be substantial.

 

[Firefly]

Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Civil Service Annual Leave

Secretary 31 days
Deputy Secretary 31 days
Assistant Secretary 31 days
Principal (standard scale) 29 days
Assistant Principal (standard scale) 29 days
Administrative Officer 21 days, rising to 26 days after 5 years' service
Higher Executive Officer 26 days
Executive Officer 20 days, rising to 21 days after 5 years' service
Staff Officer 21 days
Clerical Officer 20 days
Services Officer 20 days
Services Attendant 20 days

I know this is off-topic but this is part of the problem with the PS in my opinion...the more senior you are the more leave you get. I would have thought that the more senior you are the more you are needed to make sure your area runs better....

 

[Purple]

Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

I know this is off-topic but this is part of the problem with the PS in my opinion...the more senior you are the more leave you get. I would have thought that the more senior you are the more you are needed to make sure your area runs better....

I agree. I get 20 days a year and it's a struggle to take them all.

 

[Shawady]

Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Is this unpaid leave include higher civil servants such as judges , politicians etc?
Can't imagine the Dail not sitting for 12 fewer days next year.

 

[thedaras]

Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Could someone claify which of the following the situation is/will be please.

1) 12 days unpaid leave on top of the leave already entitled too ie;26 days plus 12

2) 12 days unpaid leave taken out of the leave already entitled too?ie;26 days minus 12?

If it were the second there would be no need for any overtime,extra workers being drafted in etc..it would get my vote anyway..if I could vote ..

 

[csirl]

Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

The media can put a spin on anything and the public will fall for it.

So workers being locked out by their employers and not paid are now on "unpaid annual leave"?

Are all the people who are on short weeks due to their employers being in financial difficulties also on "unpaid leave" on the days they dont work? Are unemployed people on permanent "unpaid leave"?

Essentially whats happening in the PS is that employees are being e.g. forced to go onto a 4 day week for 12 weeks. Its short time working and should be referred to as such. "Unpaid leave" makes it seem like its some sort of benefit to the employee!

 

[carpedeum]

Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

one thing struck me about this unpaid leave business, particularly for nurses - I suspect they'll all get hired back in as agency nurses at double the cost when the wards are short staff, so where's the gain?

This is already happening because of the recruitment ban!

 

[Firefly]

Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

I think the government is playing this one on a year-by-year basis - hoping that the tax intake increases next year so that further cuts won't be needed and any unpaid leave be reversed. I don't think this is a good idea and would have preferred a wage cut this year and unpaid leave the following year if required

 

[carpedeum]

Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

What is annoying as a parent of national school students is the refusal of teachers unions to take the 12 days during their 20+ WEEKS holidays. Parent teacher meetings have already reverted to being held during school hours - we thought this would change under the benchmarking, speaking of which, when is the downward benchmarking due to be implemented to align public service salaries with reduced private sector salaries, never mind job losses, zero of which have occurred in the public service. The recruitment ban has been circumvented by emplying agency staff and contractors. Two teachers in our extended family never have to arrive in work until after 9.00 never work late beyond 430 - this doesn't include free class sessions!

Not all public servants will suffer equally if this 12 day proposal is implemented! One has to admire the public service union negotiators, though they have little interest in the unemployed, the poor or the exchequer deficit.

I'm married to a public servant (nurse) and have relatives who are firemen, gardai and clerical officers.... Who don't take second jobs during their holidays or earn lucrative tax free black market grinds at up to €40 an hour!

Perhaps, the school year can be extended by 12 days or to UK levels?

 

[Firefly]

Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

What is annoying as a parent of national school students is the refusal of teachers unions to take the 12 days during their 20+ WEEKS holidays.

Perhaps, the school year can be extended by 12 days or to UK levels?

problem and solution

 

[DerKaiser]

Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

"Unpaid leave" makes it seem like its some sort of benefit to the employee!

No. It makes it sound like what it is, a day less work for a day less pay.

 

[cork]

Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Is the 12 days idea now off the agenda?

 

[DerKaiser]

Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Could someone claify which of the following the situation is/will be please.

1) 12 days unpaid leave on top of the leave already entitled too ie;26 days plus 12

2) 12 days unpaid leave taken out of the leave already entitled too?ie;26 days minus 12?

If it were the second there would be no need for any overtime,extra workers being drafted in etc..it would get my vote anyway..if I could vote ..

Point 2 is a straight pay cut, I doubt they've been arguing for days on that one!

The unions won't tolerate a pay cut but they will accept fewer days worked for lower pay.

There are two benefits of work
1) The Pay
2) The vague feeling of usefulness not achieved by those out of work

I always think the unions only do half a job, after protecting benefits they couldn't care less whether people are productively employed or lie idle. I think they should have some concern for the impact of idleness on the well being of those they represent rather than leaving it up to the employer.

Going on this solo run of less days worked for less pay is a classic example of the unions having no regard for decent pay arising from decent productivity

 

[liaconn]

Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Does that include so called “privilege days”?
A friend of mine works in an IT and he said that with flexi-days, holidays and the weeks that the place is closed over Christmas, he gets 54 days a year off.

Flexi days are not leave, they are hours worked in advance and taken off in one block. How many times does this have to be explained!

 

[RonanC]

Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

I know this is off-topic but this is part of the problem with the PS in my opinion...the more senior you are the more leave you get. I would have thought that the more senior you are the more you are needed to make sure your area runs better....

Any organisation I have looked at or worked in for that matter had the same arrangement, the more senior you were, the more leave you got. This is not a PS/CS issue, it is in every industry in Ireland.

 

[shanegl]

Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

The media can put a spin on anything and the public will fall for it.

So workers being locked out by their employers and not paid are now on "unpaid annual leave"?

Are all the people who are on short weeks due to their employers being in financial difficulties also on "unpaid leave" on the days they dont work? Are unemployed people on permanent "unpaid leave"?

Essentially whats happening in the PS is that employees are being e.g. forced to go onto a 4 day week for 12 weeks. Its short time working and should be referred to as such. "Unpaid leave" makes it seem like its some sort of benefit to the employee!

Take it up with the unions. It was their idea.

 

[RonanC]

Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Does that include so called “privilege days”?
A friend of mine works in an IT and he said that with flexi-days, holidays and the weeks that the place is closed over Christmas, he gets 54 days a year off.

I think there are two "privilege days" in question here. One at christmas and one at easter. I dont know the reasoning behind them.

Flexi-days are time off in lieu of hours that have been already worked up. If you dont take the time off you lose it. In the CS you can only work up 10.5 hours, any more than that is lost. You can then only take one and half days off - again, this is time that has been worked up and staff are more than entitled to take it. Not all areas of the public service have flexi-time either.

Now, how difficult is this to understand?

weeks that the place is closed over Christmas

Purple, schools and colleges may close over the christmas time but no public office closes for weeks over christmas? My office closes, christmas day, Stephens day and the following day. It also closes New Years day. Thats hardly weeks.

The majority of the public services never close - Hospitals, Fire services and Gardai.

 

[DerKaiser]

Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Flexi days are not leave, they are hours worked in advance and taken off in one block. How many times does this have to be explained!

We have flexi days where I work and we call them a "day off" as you are off that day, the fact you have worked up the hours does not alter the fact that for that day you are "off".

There is a very pedantic streak running through this thread regarding the terminology of time not spent at work. It's hard to make a point about anything without someone jumping down your throat saying a day off, aholiday, unpaid leave, etc are terms of spin designed to make the PS look bad. Get over the paranoia lads.