Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come from?

Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

this is not a solution as I said pay can be made up over the year with OT, and with unsued tax credits, OT for those who need to be covered. Very little net savings here! And then theres the following years. Look, the pay has to be cut, fair or not ,the alternative is becoming more of a reality EU/IMF and then there will be pain.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

liaconn said:
How can unpaid time be 'holidays'. Do you call your weekends 'holidays'. We are having our hours cut and that is what people call it in the Private Sector. Calling it 'holidays' implies its some kind of benefit or treat for public servants. And yes, a lot of us are 'paranoid' given the crap we've had to take from the media and message boards over the past year.
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If I take a friday off to make a long weekend I call it a holiday, on the other hand if someone is put on a 3 day week you wouldn't call that a holiday.

I'm not quite sure of the terminology you would use to refer to 12 days over a year when we don't know how it would be implemented. Given the circumstances I certainly wouldn't be dogmatic about what these 12 days would be referred to as.

Maybe instead of getting paranoid you should just worry about doing a good job and accept that you work in a loosely bound organisation of 250,000 people whose employer can't afford to maintain total wages at a current level.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

This going off topic, we all agree that the unpaid days is a fudge of Bertie proportions. So, what is the real solution, taking into account that the goverment has to cut/save €4bn EACH YEAR over the next 5 year? Is PS pay to be cut by 10-15% accross the board EACH YEAR, or would Benchmarking in Reverse be better and would it save the required money? Is this on top of raising taxes (1k Properity Tax, €600 Water Rates etc), droping day to day spending, reducing SW payments etc?

Look at it this way, the goverment has to drop spending or raise taxes by €941 per head of population EACH YEAR, for the next 5 years.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Towger said:
Look at it this way, the goverment has to drop spending or raise taxes by €941 per head of population EACH YEAR, for the next 5 years.
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Considering that 52% of the working population pay no net income tax, this is probably the best and fairest option. There is huge scope to take more people into the tax net and have a fairer tax system. You could probably even reduce the tax burden on the already hard hit middle income coping classes while dramatically increasing the tax take.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

liaconn said:
How can unpaid time be 'holidays'.
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Out of curiousity, how many vacation days do permanent public servants get a year - I heard it was 30 plus 12 flexi days - is that true?
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Depends on grade but please remember that you have to work up flexi time so your 12 days is really extra hours on the job. Most civil servants are in the region of 21 to 25 days a year. Only the higher grades would have more leave than that. I am sure you could find out this information on the Department of Finance website.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Teatime said:
Out of curiousity, how many vacation days do permanent public servants get a year - I heard it was 30 plus 12 flexi days - is that true?
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Would people please stop describing flexi days as leave. It's flexible working hours. Therefore if you work up an extra day's hours in a month, you are allowed to take those extra hours off in one go (ie a flexi day). Its a handy resource, but it's not time off.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

liaconn said:
Would people please stop describing flexi days as leave. It's flexible working hours. Therefore if you work up an extra day's hours in a month, you are allowed to take those extra hours off in one go (ie a flexi day). Its a handy resource, but it's not time off.
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Apologies if I caused offence.

So if you work 6.5 hours overtime in the month, you get a day off. Would the vast majority of public sector avail of the flexi days per month?
I imagine work an extra 30 mins for 13 days (or equivalent) would be handy enough. So if this is the case, do PS workers really want extra days off (unpaid) a year? Have the unions got this wrong on PS behalf?
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Teatime said:
Out of curiousity, how many vacation days do permanent public servants get a year - I heard it was 30 plus 12 flexi days - is that true?
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HSE
Grade III 22 rising to 26 after 5 years

Grade IV 26

Grade V 28

Grade VI 30

Grade VII and above 32

Employees hired before 2005 have different leave (as it varied around the country). These people will continue to hold existing terms and conditions until they resign, retire or are promoted.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

DerKaiser said:
If I take a friday off to make a long weekend I call it a holiday, on the other hand if someone is put on a 3 day week you wouldn't call that a holiday.

:confused:

I'm not quite sure of the terminology you would use to refer to 12 days over a year when we don't know how it would be implemented. Given the circumstances I certainly wouldn't be dogmatic about what these 12 days would be referred to as.

Compulsory unpaid leave would be an accurate description. 'Holidays' has a certain implication.

Maybe instead of getting paranoid you should just worry about doing a good job and accept that you work in a loosely bound organisation of 250,000 people whose employer can't afford to maintain total wages at a current level.

What on earth has this got to do with my post? Or do you just like preaching?
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Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Teatime said:
Apologies if I caused offence.

So if you work 6.5 hours overtime in the month, you get a day off. Would the vast majority of public sector avail of the flexi days per month?
I imagine work an extra 30 mins for 13 days (or equivalent) would be handy enough. So if this is the case, do PS workers really want extra days off (unpaid) a year? Have the unions got this wrong on PS behalf?
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Well, we'd prefer to stay in work and get paid for those days. But there's no better offer on the table. Reduced pay for the same working hours is the only other option.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Civil Service Annual Leave

Secretary 31 days
Deputy Secretary 31 days
Assistant Secretary 31 days
Principal (standard scale) 29 days
Assistant Principal (standard scale) 29 days
Administrative Officer 21 days, rising to 26 days after 5 years' service
Higher Executive Officer 26 days
Executive Officer 20 days, rising to 21 days after 5 years' service
Staff Officer 21 days
Clerical Officer 20 days
Services Officer 20 days
Services Attendant 20 days
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Teatime, in relation to your queries:

1) There is a limit as to the extra time that you can work up in a 4 weeek period. It depends on the areas you work in. Generally speaking civil service can work up to 10 1/2 hrs for 1 1/2 days off in the following period. No more than that. The HSE afaik is only one day.
2) It is generally 7 hours for a day off not 6.5 hours (small difference but important)
3) The system is very heavily watched and regulated. Anyone abusing it loses the priviledge and that is not good for ones personnel record, promotion etc.
4) Not all staff avail of a day and half every month. That being said a lot would but I don't have figures. It doesn't suit to do so all of the time.
5) With unpaid leave, annual leave and flexi, there has always been the priority that there should be coverage within the working areas. Any failure to do so lies with the managers not enforcing this. However this very rarely happens.

Hopefully this clarifies a few points.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Shouldnt this thread be renamed the "Public Sector lock-out"?
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Beginning to think damned if you and damned if you don't
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Slightly of topic. Will those private sector posters please stop the sniping and whining at their public sector counterparts. It's becoming particularly annoying and a complete and utter waste of time. I'm a Public servant that has done my bit in Private industry, got my qualifications and now works damn hard at my job serving the public. I, and most of my colleagues are sick to the teeth of remarks by people in the private sector. We see the state of the countries finances and genuinly have no problem with cuts but the water level in the well is drying up!! Stop the bickering. There are many forums on aam that are full of public sector bashing. Enough is enough!!
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

I think since the so called 'truce thread' it has actually gotten worse if anything!
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Caveat said:
I think since the so called 'truce thread' it has actually gotten worse if anything!
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I have this vision that the weather next summer will be super and all of us civil servants will be on unpaid leave. Imagine how that will be spun!

Anyway, according to lunch time news the government seems to be back tracking so it might not happen.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

villa 1 said:
Slightly of topic. Will those private sector posters please stop the sniping and whining at their public sector counterparts. It's becoming particularly annoying and a complete and utter waste of time. I'm a Public servant that has done my bit in Private industry, got my qualifications and now works damn hard at my job serving the public. I, and most of my colleagues are sick to the teeth of remarks by people in the private sector. We see the state of the countries finances and genuinly have no problem with cuts but the water level in the well is drying up!! Stop the bickering. There are many forums on aam that are full of public sector bashing. Enough is enough!!
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Agreed.

I have stated this on another thread that I honestly think the PS would not have went on strike last week or there would have been a lot less appetite for it but this blooming incessant bashing drove them to it. I personnally blame the media and their carry-on/misrepresentations/loose reporting.

Either we get on with it and stop the blame game or this country goes down the proverbial sinkhole.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Will staff be able to take all this leave together?

One cannot have enough holidays.

Opportunities for training, study, shopping etc.
 
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