Priorities for Late 30s Onwards

Hmm. I must be looking in the wrong places in that case. The Zurich options I can see are even more expensive, for instance the Indexed Global Equity (BlackRock) fund available in the Savings Plus scheme has an entry fee of 1.54% & ongoing costs of 1.95%.

Is the entry fee a one-off setup fee, or do they subtract 1.54% from every deposit made?

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The Aviva funds have management fees of over 3% for indexed equity funds:
https://www.avivabroker.ie/wp-content/uploads/active/Active/FUND_JSRI251_B58.pdf
 
1.65% is expensive.

The 1% charge is the government levy on life assurance investment funds and protection policies. Still in place and no sign of being taken away. Afterall, only rich people save. :rolleyes:
Is this on funds in pension wrappers too? Or just when you invest outside of retirement funds?
 
Thanks @Steven Barrett - I wasn't aware of that 1% and many of the sites dealing with unit linked funds seem a bit coy about the charges that apply for some reason! :confused:

Are there any unit linked funds not structured as life assurance funds and exempt from the levy?
I am not aware of unit linked funds outside of life assurance companies.
 
Hmm. I must be looking in the wrong places in that case. The Zurich options I can see are even more expensive, for instance the Indexed Global Equity (BlackRock) fund available in the Savings Plus scheme has an entry fee of 1.54% & ongoing costs of 1.95%.

Is the entry fee a one-off setup fee, or do they subtract 1.54% from every deposit made?

Untitled.png


The Aviva funds have management fees of over 3% for indexed equity funds:
https://www.avivabroker.ie/wp-content/uploads/active/Active/FUND_JSRI251_B58.pdf
Those are the maximum possible charges that can be levied on the contract. The life company will have a number of different charging structures and those charges won't apply. It's what makes the whole thing worthless.
 
The 1% levy does not apply to pensions. Just insured investment products and risk benefits.
Thanks. So if you are not too far from age 50 when you might possibly access Defined Contribution pension plans or the accessibility aligns with when you might need to withdraw ( i.e. college fees, upgrade of home, etc.), shouldn't people just put their extra funds within their pension wrapper rather than invest outside of it and have to deal with complex tax issues? Even if it is more than the percentage that is tax-relieved by age?
 
So if you are not too far from age 50 when you might possibly access Defined Contribution pension plans or the accessibility aligns with when you might need to withdraw ( i.e. college fees, upgrade of home, etc.), shouldn't people just put their extra funds within their pension wrapper rather than invest outside of it and have to deal with complex tax issues?
This would seem to be simplest and tax efficient for the OP. His kids' college expenses won't start until he's 52 and will peak in his late 50s.

Is there another reason to keep the funds outside a pension wrapper that I'm missing?
 
Those are the maximum possible charges that can be levied on the contract. The life company will have a number of different charging structures and those charges won't apply. It's what makes the whole thing worthless.
Hi Stephen, sorry for being a bit slow on the uptake. Is there some way for me to see what charging structure would apply in my case outside of ringing the company up directly? I don't quite follow your last sentence...
 
Thanks. So if you are not too far from age 50 when you might possibly access Defined Contribution pension plans or the accessibility aligns with when you might need to withdraw ( i.e. college fees, upgrade of home, etc.), shouldn't people just put their extra funds within their pension wrapper rather than invest outside of it and have to deal with complex tax issues? Even if it is more than the percentage that is tax-relieved by age?
This would seem to be simplest and tax efficient for the OP. His kids' college expenses won't start until he's 52 and will peak in his late 50s.

Is there another reason to keep the funds outside a pension wrapper that I'm missing?

It's not that straight forward. For one, in a pension you get 25% tax free and the remainder is taxed under the PAYE system. If you have a big pension, you could be paying up to 52% in tax. An investment is taxed at 41% on the gains.

Second, and most importantly is access to the pension at age 50. Most people who avail of this are taking the money from retained pension benefits. As these are from old employment, you cannot add to these plans. If you want to access the funds on a pension scheme that you are currently contributing to, you have to leave that scheme. That could be 15 years worth of contributions you are missing out on.

Don't let the tail wag the dog. Yes, we want to do things as efficiently as possible but don't lose sight of what you want the money for. Sometimes things may be done in a less efficient way but you achieve you goals with less hassle. Sometimes simplicity trumps tax efficiency.


Steven
http://www.bluewaterfp.ie (www.bluewaterfp.ie)
 
Hi Stephen, sorry for being a bit slow on the uptake. Is there some way for me to see what charging structure would apply in my case outside of ringing the company up directly? I don't quite follow your last sentence...
You need to ask the person selling you the product what the charging structure is. Zurich Life have a wide range of different structures and it is the advisor selling you the product that chooses the structure to suit the way they want to be paid.

Zurich Life have say 20 different combinations of charging structures. But their disclosure document only shows one, the most expensive. The quote they show will only apply to one type of contract. And in my experience, most people aren't given the most expensive contract anyway.

Steven
http://www.bluewaterfp.ie (www.bluewaterfp.ie)
 
You need to ask the person selling you the product what the charging structure is. Zurich Life have a wide range of different structures and it is the advisor selling you the product that chooses the structure to suit the way they want to be paid.

Zurich Life have say 20 different combinations of charging structures. But their disclosure document only shows one, the most expensive. The quote they show will only apply to one type of contract. And in my experience, most people aren't given the most expensive contract anyway.

Steven
http://www.bluewaterfp.ie (www.bluewaterfp.ie)
So much for transparency? :(
 
So much for transparency? :(
Regulators spend so much time making sure that everything is disclose, they swamp the consumer with paperwork and forms that only a few people will actually ready. What they really need to do is simplify disclosure down to 1 page. The rest is just ticking boxes that is a cost to the consumer because the advisor/ producer has to spend time in producing these documents, which the consumer will never read.


Steven
http://www.bluewaterfp.ie (www.bluewaterfp.ie)
 
Regulators spend so much time making sure that everything is disclose, they swamp the consumer with paperwork and forms that only a few people will actually ready. What they really need to do is simplify disclosure down to 1 page. The rest is just ticking boxes that is a cost to the consumer because the advisor/ producer has to spend time in producing these documents, which the consumer will never read.


Steven
http://www.bluewaterfp.ie (www.bluewaterfp.ie)
I thought that that was the idea behind stuff like KIID/PRIIPs etc.?
 
I thought that that was the idea behind stuff like KIID/PRIIPs etc.?
Rubbish. Too much generic information.

ESMA ratings are rubbish too. They give funds ratings based on volatility in the previous 3 years. With 3 years of low volatility, a Managed fund will have a lower risk rating than in a time when there is high volatility. It's the same fund!! But the Esma rating will be different based on the time that you invested your money?!!


Steven
http://www.bluewaterfp.ie (www.bluewaterfp.ie)
 
I wouldn't put much faith in any ratings agency to be honest. Just look at their track records. E.g.:
But if a leaflet clearly stated the charges that the customer will pay (not just the highest possible) and maybe the reduction in yield then that's concrete info that can be relied upon. I can't remember if KIID etc. carries that info?
 
I wouldn't put much faith in any ratings agency to be honest. Just look at their track records. E.g.:
But if a leaflet clearly stated the charges that the customer will pay (not just the highest possible) and maybe the reduction in yield then that's concrete info that can be relied upon. I can't remember if KIID etc. carries that info?
Get this all the time. I have been in the industry a long time and have deals with some providers that aren't available to every advisor. The generic quote systems that they have don't reflect these deals I can get a client.

All of my statement of suitability documents lay out all the charges that apply to the client. But they get quote with the insurance company logo on it with higher charges, so the question what I have told them. "But it has their logo on it". It's not the clients fault, it's the industries fault for creating such an opaque system. It is slowly moving away from it but Brokers Ireland will keep on lobbying hard to keep the old way for its members (I am not a member of Brokers Ireland).


Steven
http://www.bluewaterfp.ie (www.bluewaterfp.ie)
 
Personal details

Age: 39
Spouse’s/Partner's age: 36

Number and age of children:
Two children, 4.5 years & 9 months

Income and expenditure
Annual gross income from employment or profession:

Now 124k basic, 15k bonus.

(Long term incentive worth about €28k due in May 2027 but not paying much mind to this)

Company pays health care for the four of us as well


Annual gross income of spouse: 16k (will probably increase a bit next year)

Monthly take-home pay: Between 6k & 7k (my ~5k after pension contributions, plus partners 1.2k)


Type of employment: both private

In general are you:
Saving

Summary of Assets and Liabilities
Personal Retirement Bond: €241k

New Company DC Pension: €7k

Wife’s PRSA: ~€3k


Cash of €118k

Company shares : Small amount of residual shares from previous company say €5-8k


Family home mortgage information
Family home value: €400k approx.

Mortgage on family home: €235k approx.

Monthly repayment is ~€1.1k

Other borrowings – car loans/personal loans etc
None

Do you pay off your full credit card balance each month?
Pay off in full

Buy to let properties
None

Other savings and investments:
None

Do you have a pension scheme?
~7k in new DC scheme. Work put in 8% so long as I put in 2%. I put in 16% AVCs to take me up to the max. I realise that I can contribute 25% from next year but also that this is capped at a wage of €115k.

Partner has a small PRSA with a couple of grand in it that she's still not contributing to currently. Once things settle down after baby #2’s arrival several months ago, we will revisit this. No company help from her side.

Other information which might be relevant

Life insurance:
New company life assurance:


Death in service benefit - four times basic salary

Income protection cover - 66.67% of basic salary less the state illness benefits



Now have private insurance in addition:

Mortgage protection

€250,000 Life Cover over 5 years with Aviva (joint life first death, €29.25 per month)

Guaranteed Term Protection

Dual Life Cover policy with Aviva for €300,000 Life Cover and €100,000 Stand Alone Serious Illness Cover over 25 years (€136.29 per month).




What specific question do you have or what issues are of concern to you?
I wanted to update this and see if there are any glaring issues. Since my first post I was made redundant in my old company which netted me c. €120k. I was lucky enough to find a position doing the same job with better pay. The downside is the new company is a start-up so the share benefits aren’t there at the moment, but the package is generous and I’m happy with it.

I think I might be overtaxed at the moment as every payslip says Tax Status: Week 1 which I think implies emergency tax. I will probably also be due some tax back when my tax return is done as my wife didn’t work most of the year and is only working part time currently.

I’m pretty pleased to see that my DC pension has more than doubled in the 3.5 years since I first posted. I have moved the fund from my old company into a personal retirement bond.

New company DC pension will again be going into Global Equity Fund 100%.

I’m happily married thanks to the romantic urging of @Steven Barrett . We now have two kids, a boy and a girl and don’t intend to expand the squad any further.

I’m aware that having this big wedge on deposit is not good in the long term. We have taken some advice in light of the recent changes to circumstances and are contemplating knocking something around €50k off the mortgage when the fixed term ends in the first half of next year. We are also contemplating overpaying by €1k per month on an ongoing basis (will need to find a mortgage product that will enable this, seems the PTSB setup might be a runner here).

My calculations suggest that this would see our mortgage cleared by 2034, which would be pretty great but may be overly optimistic in practice.

At current rate of pension contributions and 5% annual growth my pension would land somewhere between €900k & €1M by the time I’m 50. €1.3-€1.4M at 55.

We’re still not doing anything specific for the kids’ future college expenses.

My boy is 4.5 years old now so will be about 21 when I’m 55.

The dream is still to be in a position to leave professional/high stakes employment as early as possible. Same as most people I would be happy to continue to work in my 50s but if I was in a position to do something low stakes for pocket money while continuing to let my pension accumulate that would be nice. I suppose all going well and I’m still doing something like what I’m doing now when I’m 50 I will probably be comfortable enough to not mind sticking with it. I moved into a management role in the last few years and found it cripplingly stressful for quite a while but not so much recently. This may be a temporary result of a lighter workload and may get worse again when pressure inevitably increases later, but hopefully it’s partly due to some personal growth as well.

I guess this is as much of a progress report as anything else, although I would welcome any comments or suggestions as to where our focus should be, where we may go/be going wrong, things I haven’t thought about.
 
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