Permanent TSB to raise interest rates

Re: permanent TSB increase Variable Interest Rates

Shawady said:
Fianna Fail TD Frank Fahy was on the radio and is 'adamant they will not get away with it'.
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Fianna Fail are populist all the time; one of the main reasons we are in this mess in the first place.
 
Anybody hear Gerry Ryan this morning. It was akin to organising riots at Irish Permanent offices this morning. Totally scathing of the interest hike. He and others who phoned in really working up the listenership against the increase.
 
oldtimer said:
Anybody hear Gerry Ryan this morning. It was akin to organising riots at Irish Permanent offices this morning. Totally scathing of the interest hike. He and others who phoned in really working up the listenership against the increase.
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There's another €600k per annum An Bord Snip could have saved us...
 
Re: permanent TSB increase Variable Interest Rates

Jack O'Connor said that this action is immoral when the ECB have not moved the base rate. This shows an unbelievable level of financial misunderstanding. Either he is
1) Financially illiterate if he thinks variable rates are determined by the ECB base rate
or
2) Using the misfortune of others to political point score.

I expect that it is the latter but this is not acceptable either. The union is not a political party and should stay out of such debates.
 
I'm not sure its so black and white Brendan. Yes, the banks must return to profitability to increase lending etc, but how much profitability? Is it moral for taxpayers & mortgage holders to help return banks to the level of profitability they have previously earned, just to help shareholders recover some of their losses. Even though the banks need to make commercial decisions they need to keep one eye on customer sentiment. Could they not have tested the waters by incresing commercial lending variable rates first? No doubt they will lose deposit, investment, insurance etc business by this ham fisted approach. They have only increased existing RIP rates by 0.30%, how is that fair?
 
Jimbobp said:
No doubt they will lose deposit, investment, insurance etc business by this ham fisted approach.
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They will probably lose very few customers actually. People in this country aren't good at voting with their feet at all, unfortunately. Also, due to the still prevailing credit crunch, its not very easy for customers (mortgage customers at least) to move lender.
 
Jimbobp said:
I'm not sure its so black and white Brendan. Yes, the banks must return to profitability to increase lending etc, but how much profitability? Is it moral for taxpayers & mortgage holders to help return banks to the level of profitability they have previously earned, just to help shareholders recover some of their losses. Even though the banks need to make commercial decisions they need to keep one eye on customer sentiment. Could they not have tested the waters by incresing commercial lending variable rates first? No doubt they will lose deposit, investment, insurance etc business by this ham fisted approach. They have only increased existing RIP rates by 0.30%, how is that fair?
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+1

Why cant the banks increase margins by cutting costs? Have they lost any employees since the downturn started (other than natural attrition). Surely if there is less lending going on, there is less banking activity, there is less work to do inside the banks...it should follow that they could cut some costs.
 
Is this increase not an indirect admission by the bank that; in their greed for market share of the mortgage and deposit market they basically got it all wrong and that the consumer is the one that has to pay the price?

From todays IT
The average affected mortgage is for €62,500, with 13 years to run
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GSheehy said:
Is this increase not an indirect admission by the bank that; in their greed for market share of the mortgage and deposit market they basically got it all wrong and that the consumer is the one that has to pay the price?

From todays IT
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+1. Those of us who didn't overstrech ourselves and are still in a position to pay are being hit, as usual :(
 
GSheehy said:
Is this increase not an indirect admission by the bank that; in their greed for market share of the mortgage and deposit market they basically got it all wrong and that the consumer is the one that has to pay the price?
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This does not make sense.

Are you saying that the banks got it wrong by charging too little on mortgages and giving to much on deposits in order to increase their market share?

If so, then how is the consumer being "made to pay" when they should have being paying more in the first place?
 
Re: permanent TSB increase Variable Interest Rates

Purple said:
I was surprised by the economically illiterate populist drivel from SIPTU...oh, hang on, no I wasn't.
What the hell is a union doing calling on the government to interfere with a bank? Who do they think they are, the opposition?
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He along with every Resident of this Country has the right to do so. Our economy is mortgaged to the hilt possibly for generations to come with the guarantees given to the Banks due to their excesses and ridiculous and immoral deals. Have you no memory of IL&P's transactions with Anglo? They now throw this swerveball at their Customers. If its not challenged the rest of them may follow suit.
 
ptsb has not passed on at least the last four ECB rate reductions totalling 1% to RIP holders and unbelivably is now going to apply an increase of 0.3% to such loans. Very hard to understand their thinking ?????????????
 
callybags said:
This does not make sense.

Are you saying that the banks got it wrong by charging too little on mortgages and giving to much on deposits in order to increase their market share?

If so, then how is the consumer being "made to pay" when they should have being paying more in the first place?
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It's the same arguement as the people who'll have to take pay cuts taking all the pain because the government was reckless (and paid them too much in the past :rolleyes:)
 
Re: permanent TSB increase Variable Interest Rates

gillarosa said:
He along with every Resident of this Country has the right to do so. Our economy is mortgaged to the hilt possibly for generations to come with the guarantees given to the Banks due to their excesses and ridiculous and immoral deals. Have you no memory of IL&P's transactions with Anglo? They now throw this swerveball at their Customers. If its not challenged the rest of them may follow suit.
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Challenged by who? On what basis?
 
On a serious note. There is quite a complex relationship now between the state and the banks so it's hard to credit or discredit different viewpoints:

1) The main one is will the state pay too much for assets/liabilities taken on by NAMA
2) Is the state pressurising banks to keep mortgage rates low and deposit rates high at the expense of the shareholders
3) Is the state pressurising banks into maintaining current staffing levels i.e. are the shareholders paying wages to keep people off the dole?

It's all very complex. I think in reality the banks are/were bust if we look at the full extent of their writedowns. Because the tax payer saved the banks and will ultimately bear practically all potential losses (remember how low market capitalisations i.e. shareholder values were) then we should not have a situation where shareholders gain anything until the tax payer has been adequately paid off.

If NAMA does it's job and values the toxic assets correctly then shareholders will probably wiped and the state becomes the shareholder and all actions such as maintaining staffing levels, setting mortgage rates, etc are all just excercise in the state redistributing resources within the economy. The arguement then becomes:

1) Should bank staff be kept in their jobs or thrown to the wolves (same as arguements about public sector pay/numbers)
2) Should mortgage holders be subsidised by the tax payer by means of artificially low interest rates
 
yankinlk said:
+1

Why cant the banks increase margins by cutting costs? Have they lost any employees since the downturn started (other than natural attrition). Surely if there is less lending going on, there is less banking activity, there is less work to do inside the banks...it should follow that they could cut some costs.
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Yup, letting people go is an easy way of cutting costs. But remember, gor arguments sake, BoI and AIB want to let go 2000 employees each, but are backed by the governemnt. Is the government going to let them land that many more people on the live registrer? Someohow I doubt it.
 
Re: permanent TSB increase Variable Interest Rates

The Minister has indicated that he will not intervene. Expect the other banks to follow suit shortly.
 
Re: permanent TSB increase Variable Interest Rates

Other banks will follow suit...as there isn't any demand for new mortgages that they'd miss out on by raising rates, they can increase rates which affect existing customers. They cast the nets over the last few years and now they're gonna reel in their catch
 
Re: permanent TSB increase Variable Interest Rates

This is getting ridiculous. I have not heard one logical reason as to why what Permanent TSB did was so wrong.
 
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