Opening an account with DKB bank in Germany from Ireland

DublinTexas

Frequent Poster
(This Key Post was written on 25 November 2011)
Opening an account with DKB


What does make a DKB-Cash account a good choice?
1. 0 € Fee for standard operations
2. 0 € Fee for withdrawing cash with your Visa Card worldwide
3. 0.5% p.a. interest on the balance of your current account
4. 2.05% p.a. interest on the credit balance of the Visa Card
5. 7.9% p.a. debit interest is you use your overdraft
6. Easy account opening options
7. DKB is a state guaranteed bank

What makes the DKB-Cash account a not so good choice?
1. All documents and account operations are German only
2. DKB agents will not usually talk to in English unless you are really lucky
3. They are still using the old online banking with TAN’s

What do I get with the account package?
1. Current Account
2. V-Pay Card which can be used to pay in shops, however note ATM usage incurs fees
3. Visa Charge Card
4. Overdraft limit on current account

What are the fees?
1. Standard operations (credit/debit including SEPA in €) are free
2. V Pay card usage if free in shops in €, otherwise 1% fee (min 0.77€/max 3.83)
3. Visa card usage is free in shops in €, otherwise 1.75 fee (no max)
4. ATM usage of Visa card worldwide free of charge
Full details are available here.

What are the interest rates?
1. On the current account 0.5% p.a. interest on the balance
2. 2.05% p.a. interest on the credit balance of the Visa Card
3. 7.9% p.a. debit interest is you use your overdraft
4. 12% p.a. for unauthorized overdrafts
Full details are available here. Rates correct as of 24/11/11.

What do I need to open an account online?
1. A good online translator like http://www.microsofttranslator.com/
2. About 20 minutes to ensure you fill the online application out correctly

How do I open an account online?

1. Visit the DKB.de webpage, click on DKB-Cash on the menu and click on “Jetzt eröffnen”
2. A webpage will request “Persönliche Angaben” in German, these are your personal contact details

Kontoinhaber means account owner

a. Anrede is Frau if you are female and Herr if you are male
b. Vorname is your first name
c. Titel is your academic title
Warning, even if you have a Dr. etc do not choose this, it is a crime in Germany to use a Dr. title that is not acknowledged by a specific German authority.
d. Name is your Last Name
e. Geburtsname is your maiden Name
f. Geburtsdatum is the date of your birth in DD.MM.YYYY format
g. Geburtsort is the place of your birth
h. Familienstand is your relationship Status
Ledig is single, verheiratet is married, getrennt levend is separated, geschieden is divorced, verwitwet is widow, lebengsgemeinschaft is a registered partnership
i. Staatsangehörigkeit is your citizenship, this must match your passport
j. Telefonnummer is your telephone number
k. E-mail (come on….)

Anschrift means address

l. Straße, Hausnummer is your street and house number
In Germany the street comes first, than the house number
m. PLZ*, Ort* is your postcode and Town
So if you are posh it’s 4 Dublin for example
n. Land is the country you live in
o. Wohnhaft seit means since when are you living at the address in MM.YYYY
p. Wohnstatus means who owns your property.
Eigentum means you do, zur miete means you rent and sonstiges is anything else
q. Möchten Sie eine abweichende Postanschrift angeben?
Click „JA“ if you want to provide a mailing address different from the address you just enterd, otherwise choose „Nein“

Beschäftigung means your current work circumstances

r. Tätigkeit means your occupation
Angestellter means you are employed and is applicable to the most, otherwise use the online translator to find the appropriate title
S. Derzeitiges monatliches Nettoeinkommen in Euro asks for your current monthly net salary (after taxes etc.) in Euro
t. tätig seit asks since when you work at your current employer in MM.YYYY
u. Branche means the kind of company you work for, again please use the online translator

Weitere Angaben zum Produktpaket

v. Möchten Sie einen zweiten Kontoinhaber angeben?
This asks if you want a secondary account owner, choose “Ja” for yes and “Nein” for no.
Now click on “weiter”

New page “Datenschutz & Bedingungen” is the Terms & Conditions
You need to click the tick box for all of the boxes with the exception of the last one
Number one is your permission for electronic processing
Number two is the schufa permission (the german ICB)
Number three is your declaration that you will use this account for your own purposed and in compliance with the money laundering laws
Number four is your acceptance of the T&C, price list, EU guidelines for long distance products
Number five is your opt in for receiving mails about new products etc. from DBK
Now click on “weiter”

New page “Antrag senden” is showing you what you entered and asks you to confirm it by pressing “Antrag senden” or make changes by clicking “zurück”.

You than will be presented with a confirmation screen

What happens next?
DKB will start processing your application and send you a letter with documentation you have to sign.

You will receive
1. An application form filled out with the data you provided
2. Terms and condition pages
3. A form for Postident (identification at a German Post Office)
4. A form for Identification outside Germany

What do to next?

If you plan a trip to Germany, sign the documents wherever it requests “Unterschrift” on both the application form and the Terms and Conditions. Pack your passport and an original utility bill or bank account statement. Take all those documents, go into a post office in Germany and present the Post Ident form to the agent, they will take your passport and complete a form for you to sign. Hand them your documents including the utility bill or bank account statement and they will send everything to the bank. You must include the bill/account statement, otherwise they will reject your application. There is no charge for you. Most agents in large post offices speak English.

If you don’t want to fly to Germany, sign the documents wherever it requests “Unterschrift” on both the application form and the Terms and Conditions. Take your passport and proof of address (utility bill or bank account statement) and go to a notary public. No Irish bank can help you, you need to find a notary public, there is an online directory here. The guidelines what the notary needs to do are in English on the forms so he will complete is as applicable. Note that he is not supposed to give you the forms back for posting; he is supposed to post it once he filled in his parts.

What happens after I send the documents to DKB?
Be patient, number one the bank is taking some time to process your application and mail from Germany can take anything from 2 days to 7 days.

You should hear back from them either via snail mail or e-mail and with the help of your online translator you can translate if they have a question before they open the account.

What will I get once the account is opened?
If they open an account you will receive several letters from them over a period of 2 weeks which are

1. Welcome Letter that includes your bank account information
2. Welcome Letter that includes your online banking information
3. A TAN letter which are the codes you need to use to operate your account
4. A PIN letter for your V-Pay Card
5. A PIN Letter for your Visa Card
6. A V-Pay Card
7. A Visa Charge Card
8. Your original documents

What is my spending limit on the Visa Card?

This will be marked in the online banking interface, please remember this is not a credit card, this is a charge card and the full amount you spend is due on specific day displayed to you.

You can increase the spending limit on the card by transferring money from your DKB cash account to the visa card online. You will receiver interest on such a balance as above.

At any time you wish you can transfer money back from the Visa Card to the Cash account. All of these transitions are free of charge.

Note that requests to transfer money before 1430 CET are processed the same day but it might take up to 2 days for the transaction to show in the online banking interface.

Is My Money Safe?
DKB is part of the Einlagensicherungsfonds des Bundesverbandes Öffentlicher Banken Deutschlands e.V. (freiwillige Einlagensicherung). So next to the usual 100.000€ limit they guarantee all deposits.

Also DKB is owned by the state of Bavaria and the sparkasse organisation of Bavaria and they have guaranteed that DKB can take care of its contractual responsibilities (exception is war or government regulations). So unless the state of Bavaria gets insolvent your deposits are protected.

And it clearly specifies that your positive balance on your DKB Credit Card is covered by this.

German Tax

After DKB credits you interest (Habenzinsen) you will noticed that you are charged Abgeltungsteuer and Solidaritätszuschlag.

Abgeltungsteuer is the German variant of DIRT and Solidaritätszuschlag is a special german tax introduced after the re-unification to support building up the eastern parts of Germany again and it's still paid. Abgeltungsteuer is 25% and the Solidaritätszuschlag is 5.5% of the Abgeltungsteuer.

You will need to contact a tax professional if you have questions about how to deal with this tax in our Irish tax liability. I can just point out what these taxes are.

FAQ
 

DublinTexas

Frequent Poster
Thanks DublinTexas, I have a german friend who can help me navigate that website. Can the account be opened by correspondance? Do you know if there is a depositors guarantee for non-nationals?
Both accounts can be opened via mail (they send you the forms), you just need to have certified copies (for DKB they provide a form for your solicitor).

Wirecardbank is part of the Einlagensicherungsfonds of the private german banks (which guarantees some money) and they don't care what your nationality is. In addition also the Federal Guarantee is also in place for both Wirecard and DKB.

If you bing it you find loads of information in english about deposit protection in Germany.
 

Godfather

Frequent Poster
I didn't open anymore my german account because of low rates and because I was asked for 100K Eur transfer straight while the german government covers accounts up to 50K Eur.

Btw looking at my gmail this morning I couldn't help noticing an ad from this german bank:
http://www.dkb.de/privatkunden/dkb_cash/produktinfo/ausland/dkb_cash_ausland/zahlungsverkehr/index.html?affiliate=ztsem&referer=26690.ZIELTRAFFIC_SEM_WW711

Apparently even if you live abroad you can open it... Now the question is: a german living abroad or anyone living abroad? :confused:
 

DublinTexas

Frequent Poster
I didn't open anymore my german account because of low rates and because I was asked for 100K Eur transfer straight while the german government covers accounts up to 50K Eur.

Btw looking at my gmail this morning I couldn't help noticing an ad from this german bank:
http://www.dkb.de/privatkunden/dkb_cash/produktinfo/ausland/dkb_cash_ausland/zahlungsverkehr/index.html?affiliate=ztsem&referer=26690.ZIELTRAFFIC_SEM_WW711

Apparently even if you live abroad you can open it... Now the question is: a german living abroad or anyone living abroad? :confused:
DKB is one of the banks I menitoned 6 posts above and I have non german friends that have opened an account with them via mail. The only problems is that one needs to be able to read/understand german as everything is in german.

And you information about the "Einlagensicherheit" (Guarantee) is not correct. In Germany there are several different protections for deposit depending on what legal status the bank has.

If it's a private bank than most likley as of 01.01.2011 this year you are covered up to 100,000 € (50,000€ before that). This is operated by a federal law and mandatory.

If it's a state bank (like Sparkasse, Landesbank and their direct banking arms) you deposts are covered without any limit.

If it's a Genossenschaftsbank (Raifeissen, Volksbank) again your deposits are covered without any limit.

However (and incase of Deutsche Bank this is true), if your account is with a private bank (100,000€ as of 01.01.2011 before that 50,000€) than it might also be covered further if the bank is part of the Private Security Fond of German Private Banks which guarantes deposits further up to 30% of equity of a bank (last yearly report). For the large banks like Deutsche Bank that means that in theory you are protected for 1.500.000 €. You can request th exact amount from them, they are obliged to inform you.

Sparkasse/Volksbank however might not open an account if you don't live in their areas of service, however their direct bank arms will and these are covered by the above limit (which is none).

Any information above is valid as of today (with the 100,000€ limit going in effect as of 01.01.2011) and does not consitute any financial advise nor does it mean I would personaly open an account with Deutsche Bank (but that has different reasons).

I hope that helps a little to explain the German guarantees better.

You can read more about the protection at private bank at their pages. You can check if your bank is covered and request the amout that the bank is covered to.

Protection for Sparkasse can be found here.
 

DublinTexas

Frequent Poster
Most likely or is this going to happen for sure sorry? We are only a week away from 1st January 2011... :confused:

Furthermore, where do you read that? :confused:
This is Germany we are talking about; nothing is ever easy, especially as the banking system is not as easy as in Ireland where we have loads of failed banks that are now stated controlled and one or two other ones.

In Germany before all of this mess started they always had private banks, co-operative banks, savings banks and public banks. The minimum cover for all of them is the same. But depending on who owns (or rather the legal status of the bank) additional coverage is possible.

I said most likely because again there is more than this to protection for banks in Germany. It really depends on the legal structure of the bank. So you will have the 100,000€ but you might also have more than that depending on the bank.

The bank guarantee as provided by the Entschädigungseinrichtung deutscher Banken GmbH will go up to 100,000 € as of 01.01.2010. This is the minimum guarantee that you will have if you have deal with a bank licensed by the German Authorities, you can see the full list here. Unfortunately the whole pages are in German but you can find the 100,000 € limit also on that page.

The 100,000 € limit change is shown in the recent change to § 4 und § 5 des Einlagensicherungs- und Anlegerentschädigungsgesetzes (EAEG), I can't find an english new release for it, but the Pages of the Bundesverbandes deutscher Banken show you that figure too.

So for Deutsche Bank you have this 100,000 € plus the additional protection of the Einlagensicherungsfonds des Bundesverbandes deutscher Banken which is the 30% of equity. Again you read about that here.

DBK (Deutsche Kreditbank AG) however is not a private bank, it’s an arm of BayernLB, so it’s not covered by the additional guarantee of the private banks.

It’s what is called a Öffentliche Bank (or state owned bank). So they are covered by the 100,000€ plus additional coverage out of the “Einlagensicherungsfonds des Bundesverbandes Öffentlicher Banken Deutschlands e.V.” which is here. (German only).

So what you can do to find out to which extend they are covered you can write an e-mail to einlagensicherung@voeb.de and ask them about the coverage for Deutsche Kreditbank AG. Most likely the DBK CSR does not know about the 2nd protection, germans usualy don’t question their protection of an Öffentliche Bank.

Deposit Protection in Germany is not easy, as it depends on what the legal status of the bank is. There are different protection schemes for different banks in addition to the basic EU rules.

You can always asks the bank itself or write an e-mail to the regulator here.

I hope that helps you making a decision, but please contact the respective authorities before making any decision.
 

DublinTexas

Frequent Poster
Yes, but what's the minimum amount before flying there? Furthermore, banks like Kommerzbank told me "Nein" to opening an account as non-resident... :(
Most german retails banks will not open an account for non residents, there are a couple direct banks like DKB or Wirecardbank or 1822direkt which will do it. And those are actualy aiming at germans residing outside Germany not really non germans.

However Private Banking Arms of major german banks (like Deutsche Bank, Commerzbank) will open an account but have minimum investments as they only deal with wealth management. The best is to contact them and have a phone conversation with them in which you tell them what you are looking for.

I can't understand why it's Germany for everybody because it's not easy to get a bank account.
 

149oaks

Frequent Poster
Tks UFC but:
Website is in German which I don't speak which leaves a couple of open issues - types of a/c, current a/c charges..
I've now spoken twice to them on phone and got nowhere - the woman who called me didn't know where to transfer me. Previously when I called them a guy told me he'd get somone to call me and I heard nothing.
I've e-mailed my queries a couple of times and have been told they're being passed on to a relevant person - and guess what................nothing.:mad:

If I sound frustrated it's not with you UFC :).
 

Godfather

Frequent Poster
I'll open my account with DKB. Super-covered, 1.65%! What else do I want? :)

Has anyone opened their account with DKB? Thank you!
 

Godfather

Frequent Poster
Did you open the account by mail? What was the procedure?
Yes I'm opening it by mail after filling in the forms that I was asked to complete after clicking on "Jetzt erhoeffnen" here ---> http://www.dkb.de/privatkunden/dkb_cash/index.html

How did you navigate the website, do you have a german speaking friend or did you get in touch with an english speaking agent at DKB?
I've very little german but google translator helped me. Also at DKB some reps speak enough English in order to help me

Is this a on demand deposit account, do you need to give any notice to withdraw?
I don't know, sent the forms today after a solicitor authenticated my signature on one of the pages

Do you have to open a current account and a savings account, and what are the charges associated with that?
I asked for current account and visa account. The visa account is the one that gives 1.65% :)
 

DublinTexas

Frequent Poster
Good luck with that. They wont do it for you. They say it's illegal under new German law.

Could be the law of Inertia all be told... They are truly useless with such matters.
There has been a change in the Geldwäschegesetz (money laundering law) and since them an embassy is not longer allowed to be part of the identity verification.

In addition you might see that the banks now will send you a big questionaire when you open the account which includes question about your occupation, relationship to germany, reasons for an account in germany, value of your assets, source of the money you will transfer, your estimated monthly usage and how you will spend it.

However as an irish notary public has the same legal standing for identity verification as a german notary public so most banks will accept certifications of documents by them.

DKB as Godfather can attest to, does not only require certified copies of document, they require a solicitor/notary public to fill out a form that confirms your identity. Maybe he can share how much he paid for that, but my undertanding is that DKB will refund that fee when you provide a receipt.

However if I understood my last conversation with DKB correctly (when I tried to change my plain visa card to a miles earning one) they might stop accepting non germans soon as they say, this account is aimed at germans living abroad.

If you are desperate for a german account you can always go with wirecardbank which don't care about anything as long as you are willing to pay their high fees. They just want a certified copy of your passport and that you pay the opening fee in advance andelse they don't care.

Good Luck to you all trying to move money to Germany.
 

Godfather

Frequent Poster
Thank you so much DublinTexas! You're a star! Today I got the welcome letter from dkb! 1.65% with a very safe bank!!! Wow!!! Thank you DublinTexas!!! :)
 

DublinTexas

Frequent Poster
I filled out the application form at DKB but I was slightly unsure of some of the German!....Are the Maestro and Visa cards optional, or are they both mandatory?

What are the charges associated with the Maestro and Visa?

Is there a current account as well as a savings account, and if so what are the charges associated with the current account?
All of your interactions will be in German so you really need to make a personal decision if you feel comfortable to have only German documents including legal notices.

The DKB-Cash account is a current account that is free of charge.

The Maestro card is linked to the DKB-Cash account, the visa card is linked to a subaccount which pays interest on positive blanaces.

The Visa card will pay 1.65% interest on positive balances, the cash account itself 0.5%. I don't know if non germans are getting a credit limit on the visa card.

The Visa card allows worldwide money withdraws out of an ATM for free (yes free).

Purchases with the visa card are free if in €, otherwise it's 1.75% conversion charge.

The Maestro (EC) card allows cash withdraw only from DKB ATM's for free, other machines in germany will tell you their charge and outside germany it's 1% with a minimum of 10€.

Maestro shopping in € is free, other currencies it's 1% min. 0,77 EUR/max. 3,83 EUR.

So in effect the VISA card is great if you need cash. The maestro goes directly from your account, while the Visa requires you to move money from your account to the visa account first, but that is free, including moving money back.

Again, if you don't speak german a little or do not feel comfortable than this account might not be for you.

I really wonder why they are not investing some money and get this done in english, there seams to be a big market out there.
 

damson

Frequent Poster
Can anyone who has opened an account with DKB (Godfather? DublinTexas? Chewchew?) indicate if electronic transfers can be made to another bank account from the Visa account?

I'm contemplating joining DKB and it seems from what I've read that the Visa account would be basically used as the savings account (as it has the higher interest rate), with an associated current account. Fine - money can be transferred into the Visa account. Money can also be taken out of the Visa account using the Visa card at an ATM - also fine. But what if I want to take out a large sum (larger than an ATM will give - say €10k)? Can I do an online transfer OUT of the Visa account?

Otherwise, once it's been put in, the money is basically stuck there - unless one is buying stuff or withdrawing modest cash sums via ATM.

Thanks.
 

Godfather

Frequent Poster
Chewchew, go for it! Everytime I talked with DKB on the phone I had usually 50% chances to talk with someone who can speak in English, and if not, they passed him/her to me. But I admit that a couple of times I did a conference call with a german speaking friend of mine.

I'm on holidays but before departing I got my welcome letter with all the coordinates for bank transfer, a list of internet codes and the Visa card.

DKB seems so straight forward. I'm looking forward to do my transfers when back. Then I'll update you, unless DublinTexas can already do so, he informed us first on this fantastic account! :)
 

DublinTexas

Frequent Poster
Can anyone who has opened an account with DKB (Godfather? DublinTexas? Chewchew?) indicate if electronic transfers can be made to another bank account from the Visa account?

I'm contemplating joining DKB and it seems from what I've read that the Visa account would be basically used as the savings account (as it has the higher interest rate), with an associated current account. Fine - money can be transferred into the Visa account. Money can also be taken out of the Visa account using the Visa card at an ATM - also fine. But what if I want to take out a large sum (larger than an ATM will give - say €10k)? Can I do an online transfer OUT of the Visa account?

Otherwise, once it's been put in, the money is basically stuck there - unless one is buying stuff or withdrawing modest cash sums via ATM.

Thanks.
The money is not stuck on the visa card, as you can transfer funds from your Visa Card back to your DKB Cash account and than out of that Cash account to wherever you want.

Transfer of funds from Visa to DKB Cash account are free of charge (as it loading the card).

However the bank might have problems with you treating the visa card account soley as savings account with no visa charging. Remember every time you use your visa card in a shop/atm the bank earns money (with DKB not from you but from the charging bank which pays them). So they might send you a letter and tell you to use the account properly or get a savings account.

Hope that helps.
 

Godfather

Frequent Poster
Guys, I got the letters (card, pins, etc) and today I did my first test-transfers to the new DKB account. Everything seems to clear and simple with DKB.

Wow! Thank you again DublinTexas for the tips! :cool:
 

DublinTexas

Frequent Poster
To DublinTexas please: on DKB I see no limit to the amount per transaction with the DKB card or am I wrong sorry? So does it mean that if I transfer 30K Euro into the credit card and my credit card gets stolen the money could potentially be spent in one unique transaction sorry? :confused:

Thank you so much for your help in clarifying as I don't have much experience with positive balances on credit cards. :D
I am not working for DKB and any opinion I have is based on my own experience and the T&C of DKB.

The card carrier should have noted a "Verfügungsrahmen" which is your credit limit (if you got one).

In addition to your credit limit you can also do transactions that take your "Guthaben" (or credit balance) into account.

According to the T&C you are liable for 50€ damage for transactions that are made on the card before you notify the bank of the theft / compromise of the card. Once you notify them you are not liable anymore.

This is if you were doing everything right with your card, if you however did things like note the PIN on the Card, participated in the theft and other careless actions than your are fully liable.

If you have a credit on the card and your cancel the card DKB will transfer your credit over to your new card.

Now if there is a fraudulent charge on your card the bank will revert it and there is no difference if the card was in credit or debit. As long you have taken care of your duty of care with the card the bank will simply revert the transaction. There are time frames in which you must notify the bank of unauthorised charges.

But note you must inform your bank asap if there is something wrong and if your card is stolen/compromised you must inform the local police. They need a police report for stolen cards.

German bank T&C does not make a difference between a card in credit or debit, both are protected the same.

But again, I don't think DKB will be too hapy if you use the card as savings account as they only make money when you use the card.
 

Godfather

Frequent Poster
Really??? I remember preparing a few sentences in German asking to speak with someone who could speak English and then being asked for a phone number to call me back, which I gave in German. And then I always got a call back.

I'm very happy with DKB and their internet banking is so clear!!!

And DKB is fine with my savings on the credit card at the moment... :)
 

DublinTexas

Frequent Poster
Hi DublinTexas, I'm thinking about moving more money from Italy to DKB as soon as my italian bonds will expire. As subsidiary of Bayerische Landesbank can I come to the conclusion that DKB's deposits are covered without any limit? :confused: Thank you so much for your help on this! :)
There is a german page that gives these details and my answer is based on that:

http://www.dkb.de/kundenservice/einlagensicherung/

DKB is part of the Einlagensicherungsfonds des Bundesverbandes Öffentlicher Banken Deutschlands e.V. (freiwillige Einlagensicherung). So next to the usual 100.000€ limit they guarantee all deposits.

Also DKB is owned by the state of bavaria and the sparkasse organisation of bavaria and they have guaranteed that DKB can take care of it's contractual responsibilities (exception is war or goverment regulations). So unless the state of bavaria get's insolvent your deposits are protected.

And it clearly specifies that your positive balance on your DKB Credit Card is covered by this.

Hope that helps.
 
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