NRA Block Service Stops on Motorway

D

daltonr

Guest
NRA Block Service Stops on Motorways

The NRA object to Service Stops on Motorways. I thought it was a misprint, surely they'd be pushing Service Stations/Food/Rest Areas. But No, they're agin it.

Have they finally flipped? I've never been a fan of the NRA but this has to take the biscuit for sheer stupidity. It's noticable to anyone who drives any sort of distance on Irish roads after about 10 O'Clock that it's virtually impossible to find an open petrol station, much less a place to get a cup of tea or coffee.

Their reasoning if you can call it that is that the villages that are bypassed by motorways have service stations, and so there's no need to motorway stops. That'd be fine if any of the stations in the towns and villages were open.

I drove from New Ross to Dublin diverting into every town and village along the way trying to find Diesel (wasting Diesel in the Process) and didn't manage to find an open station until I got to Bray/Kilmacanogue.

Apart from the Fuel issue, there's the fact that stopping for a break every 2 to 3 hours greatly reduces the risk of fatigue. Motorists aren't going to drive 5 miles off the motorway in search of coffee shops that are probably closed.

Interesting that Maxol have come out in support of the NRA saying we have enough service stations. Let the market decide that. If someone wants to risk their cash building service stops with room for cars and trucks etc to park, and with 24 hour service, then let them so it. Why Block it?

-Rd
 
Daftest thing I ever heard. I don't WANT to divert off for miles in search of a service station, I want to be able to pull in, get what I want, and go on my journey!! There are some stations at the side of the road, but not that many...
 
I reckon that there should be at least 2 service stations on the M1 (one northbound, one southbound).
 
If the NRA feel they are not needed, that the market won't support them then that's fine. The Market will take care of itself and they won't be built.

But to actually come out and object to them smacks of something else. I think there's more to this story than stupidity. Although this is the NRA and they have significantly raised the bar when it comes to stupidity.

-Rd
 
As far as I know this has been NRA policy for some time.

It really beggars belief. As heard on the radio this morning - the people of all the towns along the motorways don't want truckers diverting off the motorway and coming through their towns at all hours of the night and day looking for fuel or food. One of the principal points behind a motorway is to keep long distance traffic off local roads as much as possible. Forcing it to come through the towns in search of fuel is stupid.

Coming down from the Newry recently I needed to get fuel in the middle of the day and took the first exit sign which indicated there was a petrol station that way. I think it was Dundalk, but I'm not sure. Anyway, I drove off the motorway onto a slip road, through the outskirts of the town, still no sign of a petrol station, came to a junction with a sign for town centre and somewhere else and had to try to work out which was the most likely place for a station. I eventually asked someone and got the equivalent of "I wouldn't start from here if I was going there", but did get directions and got my fuel. The thing is what happens at 0300 when someone wants to fill up ? Who do they ask ?

It really is crazy.

z
 
actually I think the NRA should change its name to NBC No Brain Cells.
they havn't a clue.
The service stations areonly one of their cock ups.
The new M7 runs just past Roscrea, Anyone with a brain could see that traffic for the Birr direction will come through Roscrea to get onto the M7. The Co Co road engineers have said that traffic will increase dramatically in the town, but no the NRA say that trafic will reduce and have put on the plans a smaller entry onto the M7 than original and smaller than the planned one in Borris-in-Ossory, which is a small village, Likewise thay say tehre is no need for a ring road to take traffic from the Birr side around the town to The M7.They did a survay to see what way people from south Offaly go to dublin, they didn't ask what way they will go when the M7 opens.To me this would be the logical question, then again the NRA........
 
Yet another case of a viable and useful service being denied by some arm of the state. Whether it's Cafe Bars or Service Stations, why is the default response of Ireland "Were better off without that"?

And why didn't anyone say "Were better off without that" when someone proposed setting up the NRA?

-Rd
 
daltonr said:
Yet another case of a viable and useful service being denied by some arm of the state. Whether it's Cafe Bars or Service Stations, why is the default response of Ireland "Were better off without that"?

And why didn't anyone say "Were better off without that" when someone proposed setting up the NRA?

-Rd
Click to expand...

I agree.

I don't know where the NRA gets the wisdom to go against the standard recommended practice of most other countries with modern motorway infrastructure. Driving while tired [and hungry] is as dangerous as driving over the alcohol limit. It should be convenient to stop for a rest and to eat; having to leave the motorway/main dual carriageway to navigate to a town you don't know and get on again will put many people (especially tourists) off which will result in more road deaths.

Yet another case of "this is not necessary in Ireland".

Like crash barriers on motorways were not necessary until enough people died to prove the point.
 
The NRA stated that they would signpost the 'service' areas in the villages.

Their current signposting leaves alot to be desired - friends of mine were coming down to visit from the North using the M1, along with their 4 week old who was being breastfed. Outside Dundalk, just before the motorway they decided the little one needed a feed and they need a rest and a bite. On the UK motorways you get full service rest areas with all the facilities required every so often along the M-Way - fuel, food, toilets and baby changing and feeding facilities. The sign at the Ballymac roundabout had all these noted on the signpost. When they get there they find a two pump backwater petrol station with a bog that must have been used by a pack of wild dogs several times and no where to actually rest up for a while.

The head bods in the NRA must never actually drive anywhere - motorists need a handy stop-off to use facilities or rest up, without a hefty diversion to get this or without feeling the need to buy something to use the often inadequate and dirty facilities.

The M1 will be fine beacuse these facilites will more than likely be provided on the northern side at Newry once they get up that far with the M-Way. As for the others....Cork is what, 200 or more Kms from Dublin and not one adequate service area on the whole route?

Jeez the Nra don't even have to pay for it, for goodness sake they could have even bought the land, leased it a hefty rate or even built the damn facilities and leased that....sheesh.
 
goimbeenism at its worst.. What is it in our collective genetic makeup that appoints morons to NRA and other such bodies who seem to think that they have to try and reinvent the wheel, that every other country in the western world with an established motorway structure has got it wrong !! and our beauties whom I doubt have every driven outside Ireland are somehow inspired !!
 
well what do you expect? they are the muppets responsible for joining the M1 to the M50 with a roundabout(with traffic lights). Have they never seen a flyover or a cloverleaf? Sure it was only open a day and there were mile long tailbacks.
 
I've noticed a trend in the responses. It appears the NRA are not the great at looking at best practice and applying the lessons that other countries learned when they built their infrastructure a generation or two ago.

>> Have they never seen a flyover or a cloverleaf?

>> NRA and other such bodies who seem to think that they have to
>> try and reinvent the wheel, that every other country in the western world
>> with an established motorway structure has got it wrong !!

>> M1 will be fine beacuse these facilites will more than likely be provided on >> the northern side at Newry

>> don't know where the NRA gets the wisdom to go against the standard
>> recommended practice of most other countries with modern motorway
>> infrastructure.

>> They did a survay to see what way people from south Offaly go to dublin,
>> they didn't ask what way they will go when the M7 opens.

I don't suppose anyone from the NRA would like to come on here and offer a defense of their organisation? Didn't think so.

-Rd
 
Guys, call off the Dogs!

I think that the NRA are marvellous! And Ive stated here many times in the past.

Travelling on the M7 from Laois to Johnstown Co Kildare is a pleasure and a credit to the NRA, Contractors and Local Authorities.

Progress on the N7 between Johnstown and Rathcoole is truly breathtaking.

The recently completed Limerick ByPass is brilliant as is the Ballincollig ByPass in Cork.

What does the NRA have to say about service stops?

In the quotation below Ive highlighted the NRA's response in blue. To pararhrase Mr Egan.

1. Safety:
( “Approximately 50% of all accidents involved turning movements on to or off of roads.”)
2. Rely on the Private Sector
( “What we are striving to achieve is a situation where the private sector will respond to the demand such as is out there for these types of facilities.")
3. Shorter Motorway Network in Ireland.
( ".....Irish road network was small by European terms.")

ajapale

Safety fears over lack of motorway service stations
15/06/2005 - 08:51:43

A lack of service stations along the State’s motorway network is a major safety issue for drivers, it was warned today.

Jimmy Quinn of the Irish Road Haulage Association (IRHA) said the National Roads Authority (NRA) strategy against service stations and rest stops along the expanding motorway network was flawed.

“There is a major safety issue,” Mr Quinn warned. “Any day you have drivers driving for a potential stretch of three to four hours and no facilities to stop and rest and take a statutory break, you would certainly have a safety issue.

“From a tourism point of view, from a road-safety point of view, the strategy is flawed.”

Michael Egan of the NRA admitted the body would not follow standard European practice of allowing for service stations at regular intervals along the motorway.

Mr Egan also put the NRA’s strategy down to safety reasons.

“We have concerns in relation to safety, from our own research. We have reviewed the accident records based on data supplied to the authority by the gardaí,” he said.

“Approximately 50% of all accidents involved turning movements on to or off of roads.”

Mr Egan said the State’s motorway and dual carriageway network involves frequent interchanges to access towns and local communities – providing access to existing facilities.

He added: “What we are striving to achieve is a situation where the private sector will respond to the demand such as is out there for these types of facilities.

“But they would ideally be located close to purpose-designed interchanges, that, as I say, will be constructed at relatively short intervals along the motorway/dual carriageway network.

“So the authority will facilitate the public in identifying these facilities through an appropriate signage programme.”

The NRA said the Irish road network was small by European terms.

Mr Egan said there had been a strong response from the private sector to provide rest areas, restaurant and parking facilities close to interchanges to motorways.

“There will not be any mystery tour or long journeys required to access these facilities,” he told RTÉ Radio.

“Through a combination of easy access and heightened safety, we think this is the ideal strategy.”

Mr Quinn said many shop-owners in towns along the main routes do not like hauliers arriving in the early hours of the morning looking to access toilet facilities and buy a coffee.

“We are not looking for full five-star services every 20 minutes but at least a rest area with an automatic toilet, that people can get some respite because you cannot predict when you are going to get tired,” he said.


© Thomas Crosbie Media, 2005.
Click to expand...
 
ajapale - I can't work out if you are serious or not . . .

The 50% of accidents things doesn't stack up *at all* if the NRA 'alternative to the rest of the world' solution involves turning off motorways onto side roads and turning off them onto other roads and turning off them into petrol stations and then going through all those road accesses again to get back to the motorway.

That's why the rest of the world has motorways *without* turns - they are constructed around the concept of free flows and merges, not crossing roads.

The private sector element is somewhat constrained by the fact that *by the nature of a motorway* you cannot simply develop a field which borders a motorway and allow traffic to filter on and off. Otherwise there would be service stations all over the place and strawberry/potato sellers on the side of our motorways. The normal solution is for the motorway design to take account of this and designate rest areas and then (depending on the regulatory regime) either lease the sales outlets there or let the local authority lease them.

Our motorways being relatively short has nothing to do with it. In theory it will be possible to drive from one end of the country to the other (via Dublin) by motorway relatively soon once the various M50 and other roads are finished. That is a long drive, presumably too long to be taken safely without a break.

I cannot understand the logic behind the NRA policy at all, other than to avoid having to deal with some particular local/national policy or responsibility. It would be like the relevant airport authority deciding to put a slight bend in their runways - doesn't matter that the rest of the world has straight runways.

It's crazy. Yes, they do some things well, but that doesn't mean that building motorways without rest areas is a good idea.

This statement - "But they would ideally be located close to purpose-designed interchanges, that, as I say, will be constructed at relatively short intervals along the motorway/dual carriageway network." - is staggering. Another point behind motorway deisgn is *not* to have frequent entrances and exits (except perhaps in high density urban areas). That's what secondary roads are all about. Motorway traffic is supposed to flow, not have continuous on/off ramps.

z
 
Hi Zag,

Yes I am serious when I say I have great admiration for the work being carried out by the NRA!

I dont know much about the 'service area' debate but I thought it would be interesting to find out (and post here) what they had to say about the issue.

I would have to say that one thing the NRA do badly is their public affairs /relations.

Personally I dont see much wrong if Mudder Hubbard's or Toughers (or who ever else) develop private service stops at the existing locations like the Newhall Interchange in Kildare and the Portlaoise Interchange. Let them invest in the infrastructure and profit from their investment and let the NRA concentrate on what they are good at which is building motorways.

ajapale
 
But they would ideally be located close to purpose-designed interchanges, that, as I say, will be constructed at relatively short intervals along the motorway/dual carriageway network.
Click to expand...

I don't understand this point can someone explain it to me?

Having an offramp to a service station is bad because accidents happen when people turn. So instead of very occasional slip roads to a rest stop the NRA is going to have intersections at relatively short intervals?

Am I missing something?

If there will be intersections at regular intervals and they foresee rest stops being built close to these intersections, then why are they saying they are opposed to rest stops?

If they are opposed to cars turning, entering, leaving the motorway, why are they in favour of regular interesections?

From the sublime to the ridiculous.


ajapale, If enough chimps sit in front of keyboads eventually one of them will write something meaningful. With the money we've spent on roads I would hope there would be a few nice roads in the country. It doesn't mean the NRA is to be congratulated.

If I took €1 million from you and provided you with a Tarmac Driveway, you'd have a nice drive way, but you wouldn't be thanking me for charging €1 million. Of course if the NRA built your driveway they'd start by putting a wall where the gate should be.


We're not talking rocket science here. Can someone explain to me is the NRA going to allow in it's motorway designs for the following:

At least one or two stopping opportunities between Dublin and Waterford where I can grab a cub of tea, use a toilet, get a few minutes sleep, and/or get some diesel without navigating a few miles of backroads.

Or are they actively designing their roads in a way that would frustrate that?

-Rd
 
ajapale - I honestly didn't know if you were serious, but I accept that you are and I do appreciate you posting the NRA comments here.

I agree that it should be up to enterprising companies to get themselves established in service stations - this is a good thing. I don't agree that they should be allow locate in 'random' places near the entrance and exit to motorways. There should be very specific places and what the NRA seems not to appreciate (or really they must appreciate it and be choosing to ignore it) is that these locations are called service/rest stations and their correct location is in a segregated area which is part of the motorway infrastructure. Like in the rest of the world.

I don't expect that some of the roadside establishments listed above would plan on going down the same route in the current environment, but from what I understand some of the larger 'ad-hoc' roadside places used to have very significant access and visibility problems with juggernauts crossing N-roads to park outside them. These have to a greater or lesser degree been addressed by now, but only because local authorities were eventually forced to widen roads and improve visibility to take account of the volume of parked vehicles. Again - this is good given the context, but when building a new motorway (not an N-road) the logical thing to do is to use the wide open space and approaches provided by the motorway infrastructure and not force the long distance traffic off to a (no doubt well designed) off-motorway service station.

The problem in a motorway context is that their entire function (unless I am missing something very fundamental) is to get vehicles from A to Z without having to drive through B, C, D, E . . . . and Y on the way and without having to impact local traffic - by segregating the traffic flows into long distance and local flows (by using different roads). The NRA policy seems to be to de-segregate the traffic flows by design. It just doesn't make sense.

Ultimately, for a rest station to function correctly the services must be there 24 hours a day (at least the 'rest' elements) - going by the NRA logic this puts 24 hour transport functions nearer the towns than needs to be the case.

z
 
( “Approximately 50% of all accidents involved turning movements on to or off of roads.”)
Click to expand...

How many crashes have occured due to to queues caused by the toll bridge on the east and west link but they dont seem to mind that being there?
And what about that f**king ferris wheel? If youve seen one....
 
Did you hear the latest from the Ministry of Strupid decisions !! Dublin City Council have been systematically switching off the audible signals on Pedestrian crossings ...

Inspired reason - they had the potential to confuse the sighted pedestrians. No thoight given to the visually impaired who have toRELY on these.
Again another moronic decison that goes against established best practise in the rest of the big bad world.
Owen Keegan was doing his best to worm his way out of it and justify the ridiculous!
 
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