poorrelative
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Notional service and the supplementary pension.
- Thread starter acequion
- Start date
Hi all,
I am buying back Notional Service.
Do the above figures not indicate that I am buying back both parts of the pension? Coordinated and Uncoordinated?
The idea of buying back a year should be equal to a year if you worked for that year - otherwise they should explicitly state what it is you are buying.
poorrelative
Registered User
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see post 12 by DingDing in this thread
Post 1995 Public Sector Pension
Hi Folks I have started a new thread on this matter as I did not want to hijack others regarding the same topic, but felt the need to update other retirees who are/were confused as to how this whole integration works. Having retired in 2020, albeit started in 1978, I was always an A1 Prsi...
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Fionclaire
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The figures above are based on the contributions that all Post 1995 - Pre 2013 would have paid into their ps/cs pension
Un Co-Ordinated - 1.5% of Gross Pensionable Remuneration
Co-Ordinated - 3.5% of Net Pensionable Remuneration
Notional Service is excluded when calculating the OSP element of your pension.
Buying back years is not classed as notional service, as while I joined in 1979, my pension started in 1985, so I was in service for the years of my buy back, hence my actual service is my total service.
Perhaps there has been a failure to explain what exactly one was getting when buying notional service, with regards to the OSP element payable up to state pension age.
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Going around in circles.
My wife retired at the end of August 2024 and her notional service was not included in the OSP calculation. She was paying PRSI A contributions and started working in 2001.
Fionclaire
Registered User
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Is there any chance yourself or your wife could calculate based on her personal pension details using the working sheet on item 20 in this thread, to see if it is being calculated in that manner.
Maybe. Part of the problem is the OSP was calculated on her pensionable remuneration at that time not when she actually retired 9 months earlier. There was a pay increase in the intervening period.
I tried it. Box 1 works out OK and the co-ordinated superannuation pension is very close to what she gets. I struggled with Box 2 and the rest but yes, it does come out quite close. The calculation predicts a gross OSP of EUR 8309 and she actually receives a gross OSP of EUR8668.
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Fionclaire
Registered User
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@jeremyr62, many thanks for trying this out. While notional service did not affect me, it would be great for others to get clarification on how its all worked out in their ps/cs pensions, as I cannot trace any examples, but truly believe poster here on #20, is correct.
Box 1, ensure you are accounting for both days and years of total service, (actual and notional)
Box 2, ensure you are accounting for both days and years of actual service only.
If total service is 33 years, and 10 of those years are notional, the OSP would be 23/40=57.5% of the current SCP in 2024 when your wife retired, would equal (277.30 x 52.18) 14469.51 @ 57.5% = 8319.97, this should be the OSP amount for your wife in 2024, on the date of retirement.
Obviously this will change with any subsequent national wage agreement increases since then. Hope that helps.
I will try work on a couple of scenarios and put up here some time soon.
Box 1, ensure you are accounting for both days and years of total service, (actual and notional)
Box 2, ensure you are accounting for both days and years of actual service only.
If total service is 33 years, and 10 of those years are notional, the OSP would be 23/40=57.5% of the current SCP in 2024 when your wife retired, would equal (277.30 x 52.18) 14469.51 @ 57.5% = 8319.97, this should be the OSP amount for your wife in 2024, on the date of retirement.
Obviously this will change with any subsequent national wage agreement increases since then. Hope that helps.
I will try work on a couple of scenarios and put up here some time soon.
She worked for 22.97 years and had notional service of 10.1 so total service was 33.07. I used the correct years in the boxes. I think its correct as there was a national wage agreement increase between her retiring and starting to get the OSP after 9 months of Jobseekers. Since then she has received Homecarers credits and has signed on for credits (#36). So hopefully when she actually starts to receive the SCP her income will go up. Unless I have misunderstood.
Fionclaire
Registered User
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So we can safely say, indeed, that notional service is excluded, as it should be, (per superannuation scheme handbook and Circular 12/2024) in the calculation of a supplementary pension.
I would worry for any of those who appear to be getting notional service included in their OSP, as perhaps in a few months/years from now, there will be yet another pension debacle regarding overpayments on this matter, that is, if it is occurring at all.
I would worry for any of those who appear to be getting notional service included in their OSP, as perhaps in a few months/years from now, there will be yet another pension debacle regarding overpayments on this matter, that is, if it is occurring at all.
Hi all,
I’m currently buying back approximately 10 years through the NSP scheme. It’s disappointing to discover that these costly years won’t count as actual service in the way I had assumed when I began paying six years ago.
I have a query regarding the supplementary pension:
Before becoming a teacher, I spent around 8 years in the private sector, paying Class A PRSI. By the time I retire at age 60, I’ll have approximately 38 years of Class A PRSI contributions in total:
Thanks
I’m currently buying back approximately 10 years through the NSP scheme. It’s disappointing to discover that these costly years won’t count as actual service in the way I had assumed when I began paying six years ago.
I have a query regarding the supplementary pension:
Before becoming a teacher, I spent around 8 years in the private sector, paying Class A PRSI. By the time I retire at age 60, I’ll have approximately 38 years of Class A PRSI contributions in total:
- 8 years in the private sector A1 PRSI
- 30 years in the public sector A PRSI
Thanks
My six years I transferred into my current ps employer many moons ago, however they were only worth 2 years of ps service. I see those 2 years added to my existing service, which would count towards OSP.
Therefore, your 8 years, in my view, won’t count towards OSP. I am in a similar position, full prsi for COAP in March 2026, but have 33 years, of which 25 are service plus transfer in of previous service. My OSP would be 5k gap at least.
@poorrelative, no is the simple answer to your question.
I have now retired and having turned 66 in August my pension comprises my occupational pension from my teaching service and my state pension contributory and thankfully the total is a decent enough pension but here's the thing:
Last year I started a thread about the supplementary pension which presumably you are referring to. I was very disappointed to learn that notional service is not included in the calculation of the supplementary pension and with that being the case, was thankful that I was so near full state pension age. My total service reached 40 years, 10 of which was notional. Because I didn't have the maximum PRSI contributions I didn't get the full amount of SPC, but close enough at just €10 less per week.
However I'm wondering if I should apply for the supplementary to see what happens. According to calculations done by posters here a year ago the supplementary pension would work out less than my slightly reduced SPC as only 30, and not 40 years would be counted. I had assumed it would bridge the gap and award me the extra €10 per week but it seems not.
However I don't think I risk or lose anything by applying and will find out once and for all. What do people think?
I
I have now retired and having turned 66 in August my pension comprises my occupational pension from my teaching service and my state pension contributory and thankfully the total is a decent enough pension but here's the thing:
Last year I started a thread about the supplementary pension which presumably you are referring to. I was very disappointed to learn that notional service is not included in the calculation of the supplementary pension and with that being the case, was thankful that I was so near full state pension age. My total service reached 40 years, 10 of which was notional. Because I didn't have the maximum PRSI contributions I didn't get the full amount of SPC, but close enough at just €10 less per week.
However I'm wondering if I should apply for the supplementary to see what happens. According to calculations done by posters here a year ago the supplementary pension would work out less than my slightly reduced SPC as only 30, and not 40 years would be counted. I had assumed it would bridge the gap and award me the extra €10 per week but it seems not.
However I don't think I risk or lose anything by applying and will find out once and for all. What do people think?
I
Hi @acequion,
I think you are correct that you would not qualify for a supplementary pension.
The maximum 'gross' supplementary pension possible in 2025 is €289.30 per week (i.e. before deduction of the value of any State Benefit/Pension paid by DSP). This amount is the same as the 2025 full rate of the State Pension Contributory.
However, this maximum only applies to someone who has the full 40 years service for their public service pension (excluding notional service). If someone has less than the 40 years service, the maximum 'gross' supplementary pension will reduce on a pro rata basis. For 30 years service, the maximum reduces to €216.97 per week (€289.30/40*30).
If you are receiving only €10 less than the maximum State Pension Contributory from the DSP i.e. €279.30, this is more than the 'gross' supplementary pension possible (€216.97).
I think you are correct that you would not qualify for a supplementary pension.
The maximum 'gross' supplementary pension possible in 2025 is €289.30 per week (i.e. before deduction of the value of any State Benefit/Pension paid by DSP). This amount is the same as the 2025 full rate of the State Pension Contributory.
However, this maximum only applies to someone who has the full 40 years service for their public service pension (excluding notional service). If someone has less than the 40 years service, the maximum 'gross' supplementary pension will reduce on a pro rata basis. For 30 years service, the maximum reduces to €216.97 per week (€289.30/40*30).
If you are receiving only €10 less than the maximum State Pension Contributory from the DSP i.e. €279.30, this is more than the 'gross' supplementary pension possible (€216.97).